Zelda Director Zeidman

Weinstein: I’d like to know about your family. Tell me when they came to Portland, where they came from, and the circumstances under which they came.
ZEIDMAN: My father came to Portland in 1909. He left Chartorysk [Ukraine] because he was running the Jewish underground. He came to Portland because Shaya Director, Frank Director and Babe Director’s father, came first-

Weinstein: Did they come from Russia?
ZEIDMAN: Yes, they all came from Chartorysk. Shaika Schnitzer or Sam Schnitzer as he was known, came to Portland first and then the Directors and then the first person from my father’s village was Futter Fuchs. Now Vic Rosenfeld told me all this and so did my father. Futter Fuchs was part of the Rosenfeld clan, but I don’t know from where. But the original three families from Chartorysk were the Schnitzers, the Directors and the Rosenfelds.

Weinstein: And were they related to each other, or just lived in the same town?-
ZEIDMAN: Who knows? In those days it was a village and they all lived there. My grandmother ran a flour mill and a grain mill and all the boys worked in the mill. And then my dad and mother were married in 1908 either in Chartorysk or Lodz . My mother was from Lodz.

Weinstein: In Poland?
ZEIDMAN: In Poland, yes. He met her in a drugstore [laughs], the story’s true. He had to go there to pick up some medicine for his mother and he was engaged to another woman. My mother was in the pharmacy and they met.

Weinstein: So your father met your mother in a drugstore, where, in Lodz?
ZEIDMAN: He says so. They were living in Chartorysk when the rabbi came to tell my father “you have to leave.” My father was running the Jewish underground. If they knew they were going in the [armed?] services then he could take the boys and tell them where to go. The rabbi said they know it’s you and they’re coming for you. And so, he left my mother and went, and he stayed at Joanne Lesh Gold’s mother’s parents’ home. [laughs]. Mrs. Gold told me that story.

Weinstein: Do you know where he went? 
ZEIDMAN: All I know is they had this whole system worked out, and he stayed at their home before he finally left – we don’t know how he came all the way to Portland and he found Shika Schnitzer, and he lived with Shika Schnitzer until my mother came a year later. 

Weinstein: So he chose to come to Portland because there were people he knew here –
ZEIDMAN: Because Shaya’s brother was here and also one of the Rosenfeld’s was here.

Weinstein: Did your father have siblings?
ZEIDMAN: Yes, he has Simon Director and Shaya Director and Sam Director and Esther Mink, three brothers and one sister. 

Weinstein: And when your father came to Portland, were they all here yet?
ZEIDMAN: No, dad was the second to come. Simon was to bring my mother, but he had to leave. So my mother’s brother brought her. 

Weinstein: And did your mother’s brother remain in Portland?
ZEIDMAN: No, he went to Boston, but he came back to Portland. My mother had three sisters and one brother.

Weinstein: Do you know how they traveled? Did they land in New York?
ZEIDMAN: They landed in Boston. And my mother came across Canada on a train. And dad, I don’t know – he probably came by train. But he came right to Portland. That’s where his family was. 

Weinstein: When he got to Portland, then what? What happened?
ZEIDMAN: Oh, then he took a horse and buggy and he decided to peddle. And he said he used to go up and down Scholls Ferry. When I drove up and down Scholls Ferry with him, he’d say to me, “Zeldela, see all the trees. I grew up like this with trees and a grain field. We had trees; we had lumber. And I took a horse and buggy and I used to drive around here and peddle” [laughs]. 

Weinstein: What did he peddle? Anything? 
ZEIDMAN: Anything, I guess.

Weinstein: Where did he get his inventory? You don’t know any of that?
ZEIDMAN: He just peddled.

Weinstein: Did they live in South Portland?
ZEIDMAN: When they first came here – when my mother came here in 1910, the Schnitzers lived upstairs and the folks lived downstairs in what was called a duplex in South Portland someplace out near where Aunt Esther used to live, where the grocery store was, near the Neighborhood House.

Weinstein: Okay, so it was in that area that we call South Portland
ZEIDMAN: Then they moved to Sixth and Grant. And that was another duplex. And that was after Estelle was born when they lived out in Old South Portland.

Weinstein: How did your dad react to being in America? Was he nostalgic for the old country? Did he realize what was ahead of him here? What were his ambitions? 
ZEIDMAN: He loved being here. He went to school to learn English. It’s all in this book, by the way, that I have. Estelle wrote the book. He went to school and by the time he got to the seventh grade, he decided he knew enough so he could open a store [laughs]. His first store was down on First between Main & Salmon. 

Weinstein: That’s where the World Trade Center is now.
ZEIDMAN: Do you want to see it? I have a picture.

Weinstein: I’d love to see it, but we’ll continue talking and then. What kind of store, what did he sell?
ZEIDMAN: It was a men’s clothing store; they had everything. Elaine said it was cute; they had boots and all kinds of clothes in there. It was a nice size building. Whether he had a small building originally I don’t know. But he had this big store. I know he opened it before World War I. 

Weinstein: And then did he move on to other locations?
ZEIDMAN: Oh yeah. He had that store on First Street and then he had a store on North Williams Avenue on the corner. He’d buy a store and then he’d sell it. And then he’d buy another store. 

Weinstein: This is a photo, I’m just speaking for the tape. You’re referring to a photo that you have of your father. Did you say Morris Wolf is in the picture?
ZEIDMAN: Yes. And I have it; I will find it for you.

Weinstein: Okay. Now I want to get back to your dad’s business. Did you or your sisters work in the store?
ZEIDMAN: I did. I grew up in the store.

Weinstein: All right, tell me about that.
ZEIDMAN: Well, I started working in the store when I was about ten or eleven. He used to say, “Watch the customer” [laughs]. During the Depression days, if a store was going out of business, he would buy the stock and he would rent the building, and run a sale. And he’d say, “Why do these people go out of business, I’m doing business, look, everyone’s coming.” Eventually he would realize that people came for the sale. When he bought new stock, they didn’t have that kind of money to buy. But he had stores in Portland and in Chehalis once. We used to drive up to all these places when Estelle was going to the University of Washington, on the old highway. We stopped at all his stores; he had two or three.

Weinstein: Tell me again what you did? Did you sell? Did you do stock work?
ZEIDMAN: I used to work out in the Williams Avenue store. Gus used to sell – and I would just keep an eye on the customers and watch. And I loved it; I thought it was fun. And when I was a teenager and was invited to a party, I had to work at the store because it was before Christmas. And those were times I didn’t like it. But you know, it was part of work and part of growing.

Weinstein: Sure. Tell me about your sisters.
ZEIDMAN: May or Estelle? I’ll tell you a cute story about Estelle. When she graduated high school my Aunt Helen said to Dad, “Estelle has to go to college” and Dad and Mama said yes; they agreed that she had to go to college, not business school, because she was too smart. She wanted to go to the University of Washington. She was sixteen at the time. My dad says, “You can’t [go to the University of Washington].” So she says, “Okay, buy me a car and I’ll go to Reed” [laughs]. So he bought her a car and she went to Reed her freshman year. And the second year she said, “Now I’m going to the University of Washington.” My dad says, “Okay, but the car doesn’t go” [laughs].

Weinstein: Do you know what tempted her so much about Washington?
ZEIDMAN: She was a PE major and a math major and she wanted to go there. 

Weinstein: Did she graduate from there?
ZEIDMAN: She graduated Phi Beta Kappa from University of Washington. She was also in the original chapter that started AE Phi. And they were going to go national; one girl in the original group was Sephardic and they [the national club] did not take them in. Did you know that story? 

Weinstein: So how was that issue resolved? 
ZEIDMAN: After the girl left school, they went AEPhi.

Weinstein: They went national.
ZEIDMAN: They went national

Weinstein: So there was that much social pressure to not let that girl in.
ZEIDMAN: Estelle was friendly with Dorie Hanna, Nita Kessler, Blanche (I can’t think of her last name) and Molly Gross.

Weinstein: And those were Seattle women?
ZEIDMAN: All the girls in Seattle. And when I went to school they all took me in. They were wonderful to me my freshman year.

Weinstein: What about May?
ZEIDMAN: May went to Reed for four years. She never wanted to go anyplace else. 

Weinstein: And what did she major in?
ZEIDMAN: She probably majored in History and English.

Weinstein: Liberal Arts. 
ZEIDMAN: Liberal Arts. She met Norman Berenson the end of her sophomore year. They were married the November after she graduated college. 

Weinstein: Did May ever have a business career?
ZEIDMAN: No.

Weinstein: Did Estelle work in business with her husband?
ZEIDMAN: Estelle worked with Henry and my dad.

Weinstein: Henry?
ZEIDMAN: Sholkoff, in the first store that they opened up at Bybee and Milwaukie. Southeast. They had a dry goods store there – piece goods, dry goods. And then she went and got her Masters’ Degree. 

Weinstein: Estelle?
ZEIDMAN: Estelle. She wanted to teach. She taught in Elma, Washington after she graduated college. Did you ever know Evelyn Robinson or Jo Charlotte? You know Evelyn was from Elma. Estelle taught dancing and math and whatever she had to teach. She taught for two years.

Weinstein: In Elma.
ZEIDMAN: In Elma. Then she came home. She was dating Henry. I think she met Henry during the summer or something. They were married in 1933.

Weinstein: Now, you said May did not have a business career.
ZEIDMAN: No, May went to work at Berenson Hardware after Norman died. May was more club oriented, same as my mother.
 
Weinstein: Tell me about your mother. 
ZEIDMAN: My mother was very active in Hadassah and she was the most wonderful woman in the world [laughs]. 
She could do anything. She’d see a dress in the window at Meier & Frank; she’d go home and sew it. She made all my clothes until I graduated high school and then I finally could go shopping. She was a wonderful cook. She could whip up a dinner in five minutes. My dad used to bring people home, until she probably said, “no more.” She was one of the finest bakers, but she couldn’t make a chocolate cake [laughs]. She could make kamish [mandelbrat] and the best strudel in the world. We used to tease her.

Weinstein: Very hospitable.
ZEIDMAN: And she was wonderful. She was just very good and very wonderful to her sisters. She was the oldest and she took care of everybody

Weinstein: And tell me about how long she lived.
ZEIDMAN: She died at not quite 74.

Weinstein: Were you girls settled? Did she live long enough to see grandchildren?
ZEIDMAN: She saw all her grandchildren. But she didn’t live to see Annie. Miki Sholkoff was pregnant with her great grandchild. 

Weinstein: That’s Estelle’s daughter. 
ZEIDMAN: Yes, my mother died right after Passover and Annie was born in June [Miki was actually Estelle’s daughter-in-law].

Weinstein: Tell me about the Jewish component of your family life. 
ZEIDMAN: Well, we were raised at Shaarie Torah. We belonged to Neveh Shalom. We went to services – the Holy Days were always at Neveh Zedek then. Dad was very Orthodox. My mother was more in the Conservative side and so were we. Estelle taught Sunday school at Temple. And I went to Temple [laughs]. And Stella and May went to Hebrew School. I started Hebrew School and I quit. My mother didn’t tell my dad for about a year [laughs].

Weinstein: She didn’t tell him that you had quit. 
ZEIDMAN: I just hated it. I was scared to death. The principal used come down with a ruler. I came home and said, “I’m not going again, I quit.” I was the baby; I could do anything.

Weinstein: And get away with it.
ZEIDMAN: I don’t know, it didn’t seem to bother my dad. 

Weinstein: Did they keep a kosher home?
ZEIDMAN: Yes. They kept a kosher home. May kept kosher and Estelle kept kosher.

Weinstein: Into their marriages?
ZEIDMAN: Through their marriages until May married Tommy, she kept kosher in her home. Once she sold the house in Burlingame then she didn’t keep kosher anymore. They had sterling flatware for milk and sterling flatware for meat and they had two sets of good dishes and two sets of everyday dishes. When my dad lived with me after my mother died, I kept kosher for my dad. I koshered everything.

Weinstein: Tell me about that whole experience of having your dad come to live with you.
ZEIDMAN: Oh it was wonderful. He was cute. He said, “Zeldela, I’m going to live with you.” I said, “Okay.” He said, “You need me.” I said, “Yes, I need you, Dad.” Anyhow I knew I was the only one he really could live with. Jerry worked with him, and so they had a very good rapport. He said, “You have to keep kosher.” And I said, “I’ll keep kosher. You know, listen, I grew up, I knew how to keep kosher.” So I just bought another set of dishes. And I kept my good dishes and my good sterling for meat. Anytime we had any milk products, I just bought a set of dishes for that. And I bought an extra set of silverware, but I didn’t buy sterling. We lived in Eastmoreland at the time; we had three bedrooms and two bathrooms and we had a small room that they called a sewing room. And I said to Dad, “We’ll find a house.” But until we did, he stayed in the small room. He liked it. I just didn’t like him going up and down steps. But it didn’t bother him.

Weinstein: And so did he stay with you until he died?
ZEIDMAN: He lived with me for almost seven years. Because he went to shul at Shaarie Torah every morning I looked for a house around this area for five months, and finally one day I went out to Montclair in Raleigh Hills with Jerry and I saw this house. I took my dad and asked if he would like to live here. I took him through the house we were going to put together And he said, “How many Jews live here?” And I said, “Well, let’s see, there’s Marge Saltzman and the Bodners and Jacksons.” He says “There’s a minyan here?” I said, “Yes.” He liked it, it reminded him of Eastmoreland. He just loved it.

Weinstein: Was he an adaptable kind of guy?
ZEIDMAN: We built him his own room and bath quarters as part of the house. It was right off the kitchen so he could get up in the middle of the night if he wanted a cup of tea. And he had his own parking spot. He loved it, he was happy there. 

Weinstein: So how did he get to synagogue? Did he drive there?
ZEIDMAN: Every morning he drove until he got sick. He was 84 when he passed away and he drove until then.

Weinstein: You commented a minute ago about your dad asking how many Jews live here. I want to kind of switch gears now and talk about your schooling. Did you have mostly Jewish friends? How did you relate to people that were not Jewish? 
ZEIDMAN: I had some friends, but not until high school. Grade school I went to Shattuck and they were mostly Jewish. I grew up at the South Park blocks. And I’d go with Goldie Barde and Milt Carl lived on the corner, and the Goldsteins and Bill Galen’s folks lived down the block and my grandmother lived up two blocks. And the Gasses and Rosencrantz – who else lived there – the Goodmans lived across the park blocks.

Weinstein: Harriet Bodner?
ZEIDMAN: Harriet and I knew each other from the time we were two years old. I have a picture I can show you of us. And the Goldschmidts lived across the street from us—Lester and Morris. They were all Estelle’s friends; Estelle grew up with all those fellows but I just knew them because they lived there. Harriet moved away after I was six, because I have a picture of my sixth birthday with Harriet, Marge and Betty.

Weinstein: Did you go to Lincoln High School?
ZEIDMAN: I went to Shattuck, Lincoln and University of Washington. 

Weinstein: Tell me about that time, about having the friends that were not Jewish. Do you remember anything out of the ordinary?
Zelda. No. I remember one girl saying to me, “You have nice clothes,” and I said “My mother makes them.” And she says “oh” [laughs]. It was the kind of remark I didn’t know how to take. I was really very naïve and very shy – can you believe [laughs]? When I got to Lincoln one teacher said, “Are May and Estelle your sisters?” and I said “Yes.” Never called on me once for the whole year. She said, “I don’t have to call on you yet – you’ll know the answers.” 

Weinstein: But did you feel you had something to live up to?
ZEIDMAN: At that time it didn’t dawn on me I should. I didn’t care. I was happy. I had a lot of friends – most of my friends went to Grant.

Weinstein: How did you get together?
ZEIDMAN: They used to take the bus downtown. We used to meet at the old cafeteria between Sixth Street and Broadway and Alder. I’d meet Dorothy there and Ruth after school—

Weinstein: Dorothy?
ZEIDMAN: Reiter. And Ruth, Anita Reinhorn. This is all the high school days. Do you want their maiden names?

Weinstein: Yes, well sure
ZEIDMAN: Anita Goldstein Reinhorn, Dorothy Roth Reiter, Ruth Director Heldfond. Who else, Fran Cohen, she’s married to Jerry Shank. We were all good friends. We were a group of girls. Fran went to Lincoln, I went to Lincoln, Lois Maizels (Lois Geller) went to Lincoln, Fern Geller went to Lincoln. 

Weinstein: And you maintained those friendships.
ZEIDMAN: Well, Lois passed away. But I maintained all the friends I had. Harriet Bodner lived right on Lovejoy. The Goodmans lived right down here when they moved, I think it was Lovejoy. 

Weinstein: People tell me when I’m interviewing them the things that stick in our mind and that’s why this conversation is good, just to get all this information. 
ZEIDMAN: I think I just floated through high school. I had a good time.

Weinstein: I want to get to your business career, because I’m really curious to know about your courtship with Jerry and starting your business.
ZEIDMAN: When I graduated high school, they gave me a checking account and wanted me to know what I was doing with money. So that summer I worked in my dad’s office in the Portland Outdoor Store with the bookkeeper Harriet Packouz Steinberg, Ray’s sister. The first bookkeeper for dad was Diane Nemer, can you believe? My dad said I had to understand that if money came in, it went out. And I had to know that the bills had to be paid. My dad was very, very smart, and so was my mother. My mother worked, by the way. My mother worked at the Outdoor Store with Henry Sholkoff when they first started the store. She loved it. Then every summer when I was going to school I’d have to work either for my dad or I’d have to work for Henry at the Outdoor Store. One year, when I had my appendix out, I had to go home for a couple of months and I worked after I recovered. And I worked at Jennings for two weeks at Christmas break.

Weinstein: That’s the furniture store.
ZEIDMAN: Yes, I worked for my Uncle Simon with my cousin Ruth [laughs]. I wanted to learn how to work switchboard.

Weinstein: What did you graduate in?
ZEIDMAN: Business.

Weinstein: Was it a hard course of study? It came easily to you?
ZEIDMAN: School was easy. But I also had fun in college. When Estelle was going for her PhD. she tested and graded Shirley Mark and me. She said we were two of the smartest girls she’d ever tested. She said we both were geniuses and that we both wasted it [laughs]. 

Weinstein: She teased you. I see. Because you did use your—
ZEIDMAN: I did what I wanted to do. I loved business. I loved retail. 

Weinstein: Tell me about how you and Jerry started your stores.
ZEIDMAN: First of all, I ran the Outdoor Store for two years when Henry was in the Service. Then I graduated college. I ran that store and that’s where I saw the salesmen. It was easy then; we sold Levi’s by the ton. In those days Levi’s were $2.25 [laughs]. And then we sold outdoor clothing and sleeping bags and lots of Pendleton, shirts, jackets, boots. Very simple. So it was not tough like it was later on in women’s retail. 

Weinstein: When you ran the Outdoor Store, did the salesmen come to the store? 
ZEIDMAN: Yes. 

Weinstein: You didn’t go to Market Week or anything?
ZEIDMAN: Most of them came to the store. Once I went with my dad because I was going to see Ruth Heldfond when she had her baby, when she was married to Bill Layton.

Weinstein: Where were they living?
ZEIDMAN: They were stationed in New Jersey. This was an experience! Dad went ahead of me and I met him in New York. And then on the way back I was going to stop in San Francisco to see Jerry, but he got transferred. He air-mailed me a letter—

Weinstein: You had met him at the University of Washington.
ZEIDMAN: Yes. I met him when we were students – Dorothy Light Packouz introduced us in the library. Miriam Vines Friedman and I went away to school – two of the most naïve girls that ever lived in a dorm. 

Weinstein: Well it was the times
ZEIDMAN: Yes, well listen, when we went away times were different.

Weinstein: Yes. So you met Jerry at University of Washington
ZEIDMAN: I met Jerry, Dorothy introduced me to him and she was at school there. Lois Poplack was there and Sally Lewis and Eleanor Cohen. Did you ever know them?

Weinstein: They were from Lynwood? Were they newspaper publishers?
ZEIDMAN: No Billy was – the newspaper. Sally lived in Seattle. You see I met all these girls from Seattle at Seaside. 

Weinstein: But I want to get back to the business aspect –
ZEIDMAN: Yes. Anyhow, when we came out of the Service and were getting married, Jerry was pretty mad. He couldn’t get into medical school because he was still in the Service and because he was an officer. If he was a private he would have been able to go medical school with the army, but because he went as a second lieutenant from ROTC he couldn’t go to medical school. So when he got out he applied at the University of Washington and he didn’t know what he could afford to do. Then Dave Abrams said he would like to start the baby diaper service. Jerry thought he was too old at 25 to go to medical school so he decided they’d go into the baby diaper service business. We lived in Seattle. Jerry had a scientific background and he became the inside man and Dave was the outside man. Jerry also had to get a boiler’s license to run the boiler. And then he got sick that spring.

Weinstein: Jerry got sick?
ZEIDMAN: Yes. He got colitis. When he got his diagnosis the doctor told him he had to go into the hospital for 17 months! Jerry said that if he had to do that we would have to go back to Portland. I was pregnant with Larry. That’s why we left Seattle.

Weinstein: And did that actually happen? Was he in the hospital that long?
ZEIDMAN: No, we came back and went to see Dr. Long who put him on medication; he said, “Just go to the beach or go someplace for four months and do nothing.” And that’s what we did; we went to Seaside for four months and did nothing. 

Weinstein: Interesting.
ZEIDMAN: We walked every day. And in July, finally people came to visit. But up until then, we were there May and June and July and August, no one visited. 

Weinstein: And he got well?
ZEIDMAN: No, but he got better.

Weinstein: Better.
ZEIDMAN: We came back and he went to work for Dad. 

Weinstein: What was the evolution for having ‘Jerry’s,’ your stores?
ZEIDMAN: Oh, Jerry worked for dad. Dad had a store on Second Avenue & Alder which was men’s work clothes and pants and sleeping bags – you know the same things – my dad was basically a wholesaler and jobber. Dad knew Jerry wasn’t happy doing that. Somebody came to dad and asked if he would like to go into business out in Southeast Stark, 82nd Avenue and Stark Street. And dad said no, but maybe his son-in-law would. And they figured that Jerry would have his own store that way and it would be an outlet for my Dad’s menswear, because they were closing the Second Avenue and Alder Street store and they were moving. Jerry went out and he started Eastgate Apparel.

Weinstein: So it was men’s and women’s.
ZEIDMAN: And it was men’s, women’s, children’s, shoes. 70% were men’s and shoes and 30% women’s and children’s. 70% of the income came from the women and the children (laughs heartily).

Weinstein: Oh, gosh!
ZEIDMAN: And Jerry started buying but he didn’t know anything about buying. He was funny. He came home one day and he said, “You never told me women’s pants came in size 5, 6, and 7.” I said, “You never asked” [laughs]. He used to go down to Archie Goldsmith to buy – he had to buy women’s goods because he had people wanting underwear and slips. Finally, I looked at him one day and said, “You don’t know too much about women’s.” But I had two little ones, Larry and Barbara, at the time. And then one day he bought out Caplan of B & C Department Stores in Vancouver and in St. Johns. 
Ardis Kowit’s father was Caplan, and he was going out of business. Someone had called my dad and said Mr. Caplan is going out of business. Do you want come out and buy the stock? Dad says I’ll tell my son-in-law to do it. Jerry went out and bought the stock and stuck it and a couple of mannequins in the car. All the way home a police car followed him [laughs] back to the store. And my dad told him what to do and how to do it. Jerry said he learned a lot from dad. When Jerry came home he said, “I think I got taken.” The girls in the store said those are not nice ladies dresses, and they didn’t like them. I asked how much he paid for them? And he told me fifty cents on the dollar. I said, “Then, you’re not losing any money. Just sell them for a little bit more than what you paid for them and that’ll be fine.” That was when dresses were $25, $35, and if a dress was $75 it was expensive.

Weinstein: It was a designer.
ZEIDMAN: He called me Saturday morning and he said. “Come to work, get the baby-sitter. We’re swamped.” He marked everything that he bought. I went out there and I walked in and I looked at this dress this woman’s trying on. I had tried it on at Berg’s and I didn’t buy it because I didn’t think I could afford it. I think it was $75. And he’s selling it for $5 or $10, something like that. And I was flabbergasted. I took him aside and I said, “I’m going to be your buyer. I know more about clothes than you do.” And that’s how I got started.

Weinstein: And you loved it?
ZEIDMAN: I loved it.

Weinstein: And did Jerry love it?
ZEIDMAN: He liked it.

Weinstein: Zelda was just asked when they got married. Tell us.
ZEIDMAN: July 4, 1946. We started dating in – November 4, 1939 was our first date. Margie Pass fixed it up. She saw me walking with him and she said the Hadassah girls are having the Junior Hadassah dance and you have to ask a boy, and why don’t you ask Jerry Zeidman because you’ve been walking home with him from school. I said I was too embarrassed to ask him so she called and asked him if he’d take me.

Weinstein: And the rest is history.
ZEIDMAN: I didn’t date him alone, I dated other guys too. In those days you just didn’t go with one.

Weinstein: No.
ZEIDMAN: No, because, I went with a lot with Sammy. I went out Stephen Salkakovski.

Weinstein: Did you ever go out with Paul Lewis?
ZEIDMAN: No, but I went out with Howie Breslin and I went out with Herb Rosen – you know, but mostly I went out with Jerry. 

Weinstein: Was that during the war, before the war-
ZEIDMAN: Before the war, ‘39, ‘40, ‘41.

Weinstein: And then did those guys all go into the Service?
ZEIDMAN: Jerry graduated in ‘42 and I graduated in ‘43. 

Weinstein: And then was that when Jerry went into the army?
ZEIDMAN: 1942.

Weinstein: Okay. I want to jump ahead again and talk about the store and business and-
ZEIDMAN: How we got started? He had Eastgate Apparel, with this sale – and Jerry did a lot of promoting. One thing, Jerry was one of the best promoters in business that I knew. He knew how to give a sale, he knew how to have quality merchandise. I only wanted to carry label merchandise. We carried Jantzen, White Stag, Alex Coleman. I learned how to pick the merchandise, but he knew how to order it. 

Weinstein: Sizes and everything –
ZEIDMAN: Sizes. I didn’t do that. The buying was easy, but figuring out everything for the store was difficult. And then we opened. And then someone came to Jerry and said he was building a store on 122nd and Powell – Powell Villa. And Mr. Silverthorne from the grocery store was going out there. And he would like Jerry to have the clothing store out there. We went out to Powell Villa which was much bigger than the Eastgate store. And that’s when I really started buying merchandise.

Weinstein: Also, was it men’s and women’s?
ZEIDMAN: Men’s and women’s and shoes. We finally gave up shoes.

Weinstein: When did you change the name to “Jerry’s”?
ZEIDMAN: The Jerry stores? After, when we moved to Montclair. When we moved to Montclair Jerry hated that drive to Powell Villa. We closed Eastgate in 1963 because for three years they were working on the road. And finally Jerry said the work was killing the business so– our lease was up in ‘63 and we closed it. Also in the Eastgate store – this is interesting – was a Call Office Work Cleaners and a beauty salon, both of which opened up before we did, and we had to trust that the people that came in didn’t take any merchandise, because it was one big building and the customers walked through from the hardware store to our store to the drug store to the grocery store.

Weinstein: Oh my. So that was a whole different line of merchandising.
ZEIDMAN: It was whole different merchandising. We had to pull things down at night between each store. Then we went to Powell Villa and we built the store the way we wanted it. In ‘63 we closed Powell Villa and then in ‘65 we moved to Montclair. So when we lived in Eastmoreland it was nothing to go out there. And we moved to Montclair, Jerry hated that ride, back and forth, back and forth. And we almost bought the little shop that was in Kienow’s that Abner Verbin bought. The owner had approached Jerry, and he made a deal with her, but then she sold it to Abner Verbin, which was fine. And Abner put his store in Hillsdale for sale. I want to go back to the logistics of it. Bill Packouz told Jerry about it and Jerry said good, I’ll have a store here so I won’t have to keep driving out to Powell Villa. We had a wonderful manager at Powell Villa. And we never had to worry. She made a cute remark to me; she said, “I have tell you something, I’ve worked for other men and they’ve all made passes at me. Your husband was the only man that didn’t. 

Weinstein: So you had this store in Raleigh Hills ?
ZEIDMAN: We opened Hillsdale in Fall of ‘67? And that was the first time I went to a women’s market. 

Weinstein: Where was that held?
ZEIDMAN: We went to San Francisco – first we went down here in Portland and then we went to San Francisco, at the Palace Hotel.

Weinstein: In what respect was it interesting?
ZEIDMAN: That I walked in a room, I looked at merchandise, and there were all lines, and I would tell Jerry what I wanted to see because I knew it. And he’d say the jacket maybe we don’t need that, and I’d say let’s look at it. So I’d go look at lines and I’d write information down. I took days doing it. But it was good experience for me and it was fun. We picked out certain lines that Abner had already carried, that we could carry. It was the first time I bought dresses –I’d been buying sportswear and house dresses for $3.90 that you sold for $5.95 [laughs]. 

Weinstein: Oh yes. That’s what women wore. 
ZEIDMAN: We lived in house dresses.

Weinstein: Right, with the sweetheart necklines. 
ZEIDMAN: But this was my first experience buying dresses that sold for over $5 or $10. And I did it; it was fun. I enjoyed it. 

Weinstein: So do you feel that so much of this is a result of the training your dad gave you?
ZEIDMAN: Yes. See my mother loved to sell. She worked in the Outdoor Store too for years. And my mother had wonderful taste, I think I really inherited a lot of the taste from my mother. She could tell good jewelry from bad jewelry, good dresses from bad dresses, good fabric I should say. She knew a good fur coat from a cheap fur coat. But she knew all that and I think I gained a lot from her.

Weinstein: Kind of intuition.
ZEIDMAN: And I loved sportswear, buying Pendleton, Jantzen, Catalina, and Alex Coleman. 

Weinstein: So during this time that you were so involved in business, did you have time to get involved in anything in the community? Did your folks? Were your parents involved in any Jewish community activities?
ZEIDMAN: My folks were. Oh yes. 

Weinstein: Tell me about that.
ZEIDMAN: My dad was very involved. Do you want me to read it to you? My dad started Mizrachi, the Jewish Benevolent Society. My dad started sending people to Mrs. Hyman’s, before it ever was the Robison Home. He was the Jewish Benevolent Society for years. 
[reads]
It was early in 1910, it was the South Portland benevolent Society and the Jewish Relief Society merged their organizations into the Jewish Relief and Benevolent Society in order to provide more complete services to Jewish single men and transients. The late Ben Selling and the late David Nemirovsky together with Nathan Director were the moving forces behind the merger. 

He was on the Jewish Family and Child Service Board for years. He was the first Russian Jew on the Community Chest.

Weinstein: The general…
ZEIDMAN: The Portland Community Chest, which is interesting because they only had Ben Selling and Julius Meier. In fact I met Julius Meier with my dad at Temple.

Weinstein: Yes. Can you remember about what years that was that your dad got involved in the Community Chest? Would it be like in the ‘40’s? The Jewish Review says “that in addition to starting his business, Director was an organizer of the [Jewish 
Relief] Society in 1910.” So he really did start it. 
ZEIDMAN: Do you want to go back to Jerry’s?

Weinstein: Can you think of more to tell us?
ZEIDMAN: We opened Raleigh West. Dad asked Jerry to go out to Sunset Highway because Jerry had rented three stores from this gentleman at the time. And Jerry went to see this location, came home, and dad was lying in bed and dad told Jerry he wanted him to open another store. And that’s the reason he did it. 

Weinstein: Didn’t you have a store in Tualatin as well?
ZEIDMAN: Yes. We had a store in Washington Square.

Weinstein: Yes, I remember that.
ZEIDMAN: And we had store out in Damascus [laughs]. That lasted one year.

Weinstein: The Clackamas area?
ZEIDMAN: No, it was before that. It was a grocery store and the man wanted Jerry to go in with Ed Gold in this women’s shop there. 

Weinstein: I want to get to some Jewish component in all of this, and I want you to tell me how you have seen the Jewish community change over the years.
ZEIDMAN: Let’s see, my mother was president; she was active in Hadassah, very active. May and Estelle were both presidents of Hadassah. I don’t think Estelle was National President, but I know she went with National to Israel. May, Estelle and my mother were all very active in Hadassah and in Federation. Before I went to work, I worked for Federation and I also was active in Hadassah. And I was also President of the Women of Tualatin. And that gave me a lesson that I never wanted to be in club work again.

Weinstein: That kind of took care of…
ZEIDMAN: That ruined me for club work. That’s why it was great when Jerry said I need you and I said great. Also, remember, working was my therapy, with Kenny.

Weinstein: Do you want to go into that?
ZEIDMAN: Oh, I don’t think it’s necessary. Do you?

Weinstein: No you don’t have to. But if I could paraphrase it, your son was sick, there was a lot of worry, a lot of stress, and going to work every day helped to relieve some of that. 

ZEIDMAN: It was my therapy. When he went to school, I went to work. If he didn’t go to school, I didn’t. I mean, I didn’t have to go to work. I worked at my own pace and when he was sick, and he didn’t go to school, he’d go see salesmen with me. That’s why he hated the retail business [laughs]. Larry grew up working in the store. 

Weinstein: That’s your oldest son.
ZEIDMAN: Larry grew up working in the stores. Barbara grew up working in the stores. And Kenny.

Weinstein: And none of them went into it?
ZEIDMAN: No.

Weinstein: That’s not unusual in families. 
ZEIDMAN: I know. But that’s fine. We didn’t care. And by the time we closed our stores the retail business had changed. My dad was such a merchant that he should have gone into discounting. He would have gone into being a discounter, which he did do a lot of, but not on the same basis as they do today. It was interesting how it evolved. He also had 5 and 10 cent stores in Salem and Eugene at one time.

Weinstein: Your dad was a merchant.
ZEIDMAN: Yes, he was a merchant. And then – getting back to Jewishness, I went to Hebrew School for maybe two years and quit. Then I went to Temple Sunday School. I was confirmed, though, at Ahavai Sholom, which is interesting.

Weinstein: I’m just curious to know what the Temple connection was – was it because Estelle was teaching there?
ZEIDMAN: Because Estelle taught there, she took me to Sunday School there. And all my friends went there. So I went with Anita and with Dorothy, and Fran. And Bill Packouz, and Bill Layton and Jerry Shank. See, I’ve known all those boys since I was a teenager. 

Weinstein: Was there much distinction within the Jewish community at that time between the Orthodox, the Conservative and the Reform?
ZEIDMAN: Yes. There was. 

Weinstein: Talk about that.
ZEIDMAN: I think that the Reform Jewish teenagers did not associate with the Orthodox, frankly. I mean I don’t remember it, but in the late ‘30’s and ‘40’s it was becoming more mingled and more Ahavai Sholom mixed with Temple quite a bit. I was friendly with Jane…

Weinstein: Jane Green. Jane Gevurtz.
ZEIDMAN: And I was friendly with Dorothy and Lois. I mean I knew them all. And my sisters were very active. I was active at Hillel at Washington when that was formed. And I really knew more Hebrew at Washington at Hillel than I remembered from going to Hebrew School [laughs]. I could read it, but not as well as when I started reading it again at Neveh Zedek.

Weinstein: So you went to services and everything at Hillel in college. 
ZEIDMAN: We went to Neveh – all the holiday services were there. And my dad went to Shaarie Torah, when he went. When it wasn’t a Jewish holiday, he went to Shaarie Torah. And I remember Shaarie Torah, Yom Kippur going down to see my grandmother and my Auntie Esther, and Ruthie Heldfond, and I, with the apples to smell.

Weinstein: With the honey?
ZEIDMAN: No, the spices, spicy apples to smell so you wouldn’t lose your appetite and play. If you’d go Shaarie Torah on Yom Kippur you never could go in because it was such a holy time, we would play – it was on First Street – and we would play out on the side, because all the kids were outside. And I remember the same at Neveh Zedek

Weinstein: I remember that in Seattle too.
ZEIDMAN: We were always outside. And I thought, “Oh, you go to synagogue just to go outside to see your friends and dress up, and you always had a new dress or a new jacket.” 

Weinstein: So do you think things have changed a lot?
ZEIDMAN: Yes, they have. Up until this year I would never go to Temple or any synagogue in pants, and I have this last year. And so has everybody else. In fact, it was interesting at the Bar Mitzvah Monday, I was in pants, but Ruthie Sheinin said, “I just couldn’t do it.” 

Weinstein: A holdover.
ZEIDMAN: I said well it’s a holdover. And Lois, the grandmother of the Bar Mitzvah boy was in a pantsuit on the pulpit. And I saw that at Temple, and I saw it at Temple in Seattle. I always feel you have to dress nicely and be respectful and not dress schlumpy, frankly. When you go to Temple you’re going to pray so you have to look good. And even though I know in the Pollin Chapel, we go very casual, but I make Jerry wear a nice shirt and if you’re going to wear a sweater, wear a nice sweater. You have to dress nicely. But that’s our age.

Weinstein: That’s spoken like a clothing merchant. 
ZEIDMAN: [laughs] Yes.

Weinstein: I think that’s kind of a nice way to end the interview.
ZEIDMAN: Thank you. Thank you for doing this. I didn’t know I knew that much. I can tell you something about growing up in the park blocks, if you want to know.

Weinstein: Please do.
ZEIDMAN: We grew up in the South Park blocks, the Puzisses, and the Rotenbergs, the Horensteins and the Carls, and Bill Galen, and my cousin Betty Director. And we used to play baseball up on Clifton Street, on the part on the street. And my brother-in–law Henry played ball. Goldie and I would insist that the boys would let us play, so [laughs] we had to play with them. And the kids came up like from down on Fifth Street and Sixth Street, and it was fun. We used to walk up Portland Heights all by ourselves when we were 10 and 11, all around to the magic castle. 

Weinstein: Shirley Mark told me that she used to push her bicycle up Market Street, that real steep hill to get up to Portland Heights.
ZEIDMAN: Yes, it was fun, we used to walk up Cardinell Drive, all the way up. And Frieda Gass [Cohen] lived there, and all the Rosencrantzes…

Weinstein: And you’ve retained your friendships with these people.
ZEIDMAN: Yes still, Goldie Barde and I are still close friends. We don’t see each other. Listen, I fixed her first date with Leonard [laughs]. Leonard said it was all my fault. 

Weinstein: Great stories.
ZEIDMAN: I had a party at my house and I had met Leonard and I invited him. And I said, “Goldie, I’ve got a perfect boy for you to meet.” We were all of 13 or 14. 

Weinstein: Wonderful stories.
ZEIDMAN: So these were, Marv Horenstein and Itz and Goldie and I and Babe Puziss and we used to play Monopoly on the porch.

Weinstein: Wonderful memories. These are terrific things to have on this tape. It’s just wonderful.