Inge Graetz

Frankel: Let’s start by having you state your full name, birth name, and also when and where you were born.
GRAETZ: My name is Inge Graetz. My maiden name was Tzudova and I was born on April 2, 1915, in Berlin, Germany.

Frankel: Tell us something about your family.
GRAETZ: Well, I was an only child. I lived with my parents until my father passed away in 1931 and I still lived then together with my mother.

Frankel: Tell us a little more about the extended family, what your parents did. Did your father work? Tell us a little bit more about that.
GRAETZ: Well, my father worked. He made a living, but he never allowed my mother to work because she was supposed to be with me. I attended school in 1921 until 1925 I went to elementary school. After this, from 1925-1931, I attended a Jewish girls’ school in Berlin. Like I said, my father passed away in 1931, so I had to leave school and go to work. So did my mother. I worked from 1931 until 1938, until the Kristallnacht in a wholesale place ladies and children’s clothing in Berlin.

Frankel: What did your father do?
GRAETZ: My father was a waiter. 

Frankel: He was a waiter?
GRAETZ: He made a good living. That’s why he didn’t want my mother to work.

Frankel: What kind of education did your parents receive?
GRAETZ: Well, really, I cannot say. My parents were married in 1911 in Berlin, so I really don’t know. Really, I cannot tell you too much about this. Really I don’t know.

Frankel: How about your grandparents? Do you remember your grandparents?
GRAETZ: No, no, no. Not even my parents, my father’s parents, not my mother’s. I really don’t.

Frankel: Were they alive when you were a child?
GRAETZ: Not my father’s parents; my mother’s mother was alive, but I really don’t know too much about her. The family, on my father’s side, were brothers and sisters. On my mother’s side, there was just one sister and a brother. We were quite a family, but like I said, I was an only child.

Frankel: Were they all living in Berlin?
GRAETZ: Yes. The family was living in Berlin.

Frankel: So you had a close family?
GRAETZ: Yes, we had a very close relationship with family, even after my father passed away in 1931. Then I got married in 1936 and my husband moved in with us and we all went to work until ’38, to the end of ’38. I got married in Berlin. In 1939 my husband left for England and I was left behind because the English people… I had already worked as a maid in England, and my husband went on as a trainee to England. But the English people, or whoever’s in charge there, they wanted to know first where my husband is going to be in London, and then they’re going to send me to the same city. I had everything ready. As I wanted to go. I had my passport and everything. I just went to the British Consulate, which was closed. I couldn’t get out anymore. This was in ’39.

Frankel: Can we go back a little bit and talk about the Jewish community and your family’s involvement. What was it like? Was your family Orthodox?
GRAETZ: Well, we were of course conservative and I belonged to a Jewish club in Berlin before I got married. I was mostly with the Jewish people and family.

Frankel: Did you live in Berlin in a Jewish neighborhood?
GRAETZ: Well, yes, where we would gather, it was not only… it was more like a working class people, I mean working class neighborhood, but very nice. I mean, I’ve known anything else.

Frankel: Do you remember the address?
GRAETZ: It was 211 Northeast Germaniastrasse. Northeast fünfundfünfzig [55]. I lived there until 1942.

Frankel: With your mother?
GRAETZ: With my mother. Yes. We still lived together. Even I did after I couldn’t go to work anymore, after 1938. I worked at home; I did [inaudible] at home. My mother delivered; my mother brought the stuff home, and I was sewing, so I made a living.

Frankel: Let us go back again once more and tell us when did you feel that things were changing in Germany? In other words, before 1933, before Hitler came to power. Just tell us what changes you felt happening.
GRAETZ: Really, not until we had to wear the Star of David, and I cannot recall what year that was. 1940? I don’t know, but we had to wear the star and then we had different hours to go shopping. We couldn’t go like we wanted to. I think it was from 12:00pm to 2:00pm or something. I really don’t know, but different hours altogether.

Frankel: With the non-Jewish neighbors, did you feel any difference?
GRAETZ: No, the neighbors were nice. I must say this; I cannot say any different. So, I did work at home until 1942, until my mother was taken away. It was an apartment we lived in. The apartment went under the name of my mother. At first it was my parents and after my father passed away, it went under the name of my mother. Of course after my mother went away, I had to leave because my name wasn’t mentioned in the contract. In 1941 I was still living at home with my mother, until 1943 when I was forced to work for [Zeemans].

Frankel: Can you explain who was [Zeemans]?
GRAETZ: We were told to make parts for undersea boats, or U-boats. I cannot tell you more because it was piece work and section work; what it really was you never saw the finish of it, and this was until January 1943. In January of 1943, I became sick at [Zeemans]. I was sick at home. To go back to work I had to have a release from the doctor, which was I remember on a Saturday. 

I went to the doctor to go back to work on Monday. I was already wearing a Star of David; he was a Jewish doctor, but he was intermarried so he could still practice. He told me, or he asked me, “Don’t you know what’s going on?” I said, “No.” “Take your Star of David off and try to live underground or in hiding because these are the last transports. They are taking all the Jewish people away from [Zeemans] to go away.” Then I started to live underground for about six months.

Frankel: When you had to leave the apartment after your mother was taken away.
GRAETZ: Oh, I was living then with a lady, I moved to a lady, which I knew her before. Then she was taken away so I had to find another place to live. There I stayed until ’43. Yes. But those people were also taken away, but I could use the entrance because it wasn’t the same entrance. But I had my room on one side of their apartment, and all the other rooms there were closed by the Gestapo. I could use my room; I could use the kitchen there and I could use the bathroom facilities.

Frankel: When you say your mother was taken away and other landlords, what happened?
GRAETZ: Well, we were told at that time that the transport went to Riga [Latvia]. I don’t know. I haven’t heard anything. I don’t know. She never came back. [cries]

Frankel: The people who worked at [Zeemans], were they all Jewish people?
GRAETZ: Yes. We had to assemble in front of the building and then we were led into our working place.

Frankel: Could you use public transportation?
GRAETZ: Yes. Yes. Yes. We could use transportation, but we were not allowed to sit, but this was just a short ride by train I went.

Frankel: And you were wearing a Star of David then?
GRAETZ: Oh yes.

Frankel: Did you ever encounter any experiences, people saying anything to you on the streets or tram?
GRAETZ: No. No.

Frankel: You tried to look away?
GRAETZ: No. I must say no. They knew what was going on, because I think if I remember right, we had one train (not the whole train) but one part for ourselves, if I remember right. I couldn’t say anymore.

Frankel: What happened to the other relatives, your uncles and aunts, who were also in Berlin? Were you in touch with them all along?
GRAETZ: No. One of my aunts and my husband’s sister, her husband and two children, including my mother, they were taken away on the same day. The others I never heard. Of course everything went so quick then. We didn’t know.

Frankel: After Hitler came to power, did you ever discuss leaving Germany?
GRAETZ: We never thought that he could do this to us. We never thought that he would last this long. Of course, then in the meantime the bombing started and all that. 

I was separated from my husband from 1939 to ’46. Oh, I started saying in January I went to the doctor to get the release to go back to work and then I started to live underground for six months. I had no papers. I went under the name of Inge Schwinde. I just picked out a name; I kept my first name. I went to somebody first and they were afraid. Then I had a lady friend, she had a her parents somewhere out there in the suburb of Berlin. Those people were already elderly people. But I went there because she asked me to. I take a blanket, but it only lasted a few days. 

Then the same lady had another friend who was a manager in a hotel, and there she told this lady that I was Jewish and she kept me there for a while. Instead of paying, I cleaned her rooms and was mending things for her. But I could only stay there for three weeks, because you had to get permission to stay in the hotel. The same lady had another sister a little ways away from Berlin. I could go back to the hotel, but I had to go someplace in between, so I went to her sister. But I was uncomfortable there because the husband was a serviceman and he asked me too many questions. I told them there (this lady didn’t know about me), I told them I lived in Hamburg and I was from [d’Aute], and then I went to Berlin. 

After a while, maybe after a week or so, I went back to the hotel, but that didn’t last. There was too much going on in the city. Then I take my suitcase and went out of Berlin to a little orchard there. I also went under the name of Inge Schrader and told that my husband, Herr Schrader, is in the hospital near there. This was an elderly couple where I stayed and they were very good to me. Of course they didn’t know anything. On account I said to them that my husband was in the hospital, they gave me food and flowers, which I had to take away. But I had somebody in Berlin, a friend she also worked with me at [Zeemans]. She also lived already underground with her mother. I knew where she lived so I went there to give this to them. 

That went on for a few weeks until one time again they gave me food and flowers, everything, and I went there again, and this was the girl’s birthday. But when I came the door to the apartment where they lived was open. I walked in and there was one man who got hold of me and this was this man where I was interviewed in Seattle. He knew about the girl and her mother who were taken already away. They went to a camp where you had to wait until everybody was together.

Frankel: A transit camp.
GRAETZ: Yes. He said, “Well, since it is Margaret’s birthday, I guess there are more people coming.” On account of this birthday, we were caught; there were eleven people caught. And of course I was interviewed by this man, which was a Jewish man and of course I lied. He asked me where I come from, and I said, “I sleep in the street.” “But not the way you are dressed and all the goodies you have there.” So I had to say where I stayed with those elderly people who gave me all the food. 

Then I was in the transit camp for a week until the transport got together. I think we were the last ones out of Berlin. If I remember right, about 350 of us: men, women, children and we were taken away. Of course, we didn’t know where to. We were transferred on freight trains and we came to Auschwitz.

At Auschwitz – there were two camps in Auschwitz. One was Birkenau and one was Auschwitz, which was a men’s camp. After we arrived there the SS was there and they separated men from women, husband from wife, and mothers from children. It was terrible. We were just a few, including me, who stood, had to stay on one side. We didn’t know what was going on. The others were taken away. We were taken away to this camp. There was a big arch. It was written “Arbeit macht frei.” That was the men’s camp. At first we came into… well, we had to undress, into the sauna, and our heads were shaved. Nobody recognized each other anymore. 

Then we had been given clothing, two left shoes, two right shoes – nothing fit. Then we came into this Block 10, which was a block for experimental reason. We didn’t know at first what it was. When we came in there, there were bunk beds, three. This girl, I went to for her birthday, we both went on top, on the third. Next to me there were two sisters from Belgium. They spoke a little Yiddish, they advised us. Of course they were already there before. I think we were the last ones for this block, this house. They advised us and told us what we’re in for. She told us, “You are here to volunteer. If a doctor (I forgot the name) calls for volunteers, don’t go. But if a professor doctor [Carl] Clauberg, when he calls, you have to go.” So I went with her and other two. For this, we got a little bit extra – a tiny bit of bread and a little bit of sausage for the experiment. We got a little bit more than what we usually get, which was nothing, almost nothing. This went on until 1945; January the 18th, 1945. Then they started shooting. They said it was the Russians, but this was Germans that started to shoot buildings, so we went out of Auschwitz. That was terrible. Since I didn’t have anybody to care – my mother was gone, my husband was gone, I had no brothers or sisters – I had to look after myself. 

We had to walk and walk and walk, and the shots were fired behind us. We saw animals laying in the street, people laying in the street, but we had to go on until we came to a station. That was in January, don’t forget, it was cold in Poland. It was very cold. We had nothing really to eat or nothing much to wear. Until we came to a station again, with open freight cars, we didn’t know where to go, and I think that was the time we went to Ravensbrück. 

Frankel: The German soldiers were still with you?
GRAETZ: No, they left. They left. In the back they shoot. Why they were with us… The German soldiers… 

[interrupted]

…Oh yes, the German soldiers. There were people who couldn’t walk. I lost my friend and her mother and all the others because Margaret, this girl, she stayed with her mother and her mother couldn’t walk anymore, so most probably I’ve never read anything about them any more. I was then the only one and on that freight train. When we came to Ravensbrück we were seven; we got together and because there was a girl from Frankfurt, she didn’t want to go to Frankfurt, because my destination was again to go to Berlin finally, whenever I could. She never wanted to go back to Frankfurt; she wanted to go to Berlin. There were some more people. 

But in the meantime we came to a farm. From Ravensbrück we wanted to go on, but we were still under Russian occupation. But we couldn’t walk any more, so there was a farm. 

The farmers left and we were seven of us and got into this farm. And there was everything there! But the milk, we got so sick because we never had this before – milk and butter. Then some Russian soldiers came. We had a hard time because they didn’t believe us, that we were Jewish. Oh, in Auschwitz we had numbers tattooed, and my number was 47552. I still remember but I had to take it out; it was taken out here in Portland. They didn’t want to believe us because they said no Jews are alive any more. Until one Jewish officer came and he translated to them. He spoke a little Yiddish so that was easier on us then. He gave us clothing and we had everything then. I don’t know where I went then; I know I was in another camp, but I cannot recall. I really don’t know. Then I went back slowly with two ladies, the one from Frankfurt and the other. We were three together; we went to Berlin. 

Frankel: Do you recall their names?
GRAETZ: One was Marta [Kudenn] and the other one I don’t know. When we came to Berlin I could not recognize Berlin any more because it was so bombed. When my mother left we thought… [crying]. 

I went to Berlin and then I had to register in Berlin again. We were latecomers to Berlin because there were people before we came back, Jewish people. They started already registering and that’s where we registered. Even the polizei we had to on account that they gave us an apartment. Not the same apartment I lived in, but in the same building. I went to work there, volunteer work. We started to make registration numbers. I still remember my number was 4078. 

Then we got packages from the UNRRA [United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration] and from somebody else. And besides we got the best cards to go shopping for groceries and all that. We got money too because we never had anything. Until one day this Marta (the other girl left then because she wanted to work in a hospital or nursing home. She left). This Marta, she was always late. One day she was late and there was a knock at the door, and there were three American soldiers out there at my door. One was her brother who got through the registration; we had a Jewish community there. He found his sister.

Frankel: He had been living in the United States already?
GRAETZ: Yes, he was in the army, but stationed in Berlin. At that time, Berlin was not divided in [sectors] not at that time. But they were talking about it. He wanted to have his sister out of it because ours was supposed to become the Russian sector. He wanted to have his sister out of there, so she left and I was by myself. In the meantime the lists went all over the world and my husband found me [choked up]. He found me through an English soldier who was stationed in Potsdam. He was a cook, he had a German girlfriend, and this girlfriend came over. Excuse me [more tears]. Every Wednesday I went to him, to this cook, got a package and ate there. Then I wrote a letter there, and on Saturday my husband got it. The postal service was not, there was no communication. That went on until 1946.

Frankel: How long, about a year?
GRAETZ:  Yes. I came to Berlin I think it was in June of ’45 and I went to England in July of ’46. I went to the Jewish relief unit, I think it was; it was a transport, and believe me I was only Jewish. All the others were mixed marriages. I lived in England until ’51.

Frankel: In London? 
GRAETZ: In London. Yes, yes. Until we came over in ’51. 46 to ’51, yes. 

Frankel: What had your husband done during the war? He was working?
GRAETZ: No. First, he ended on the trainee permit, but then he was interned.

Frankel: A trainee as what?
GRAETZ: A trainee, as tailoring; because he was a tailor, yes. He was a tailor, but as a trainee in tailoring. Then he was interned on account that England was at war with Germany. After he came out of internment he worked in a factory where they made ladies’ clothing. Until I came over and then he worked for himself until we left for the states. Why we left for the states? His brother and my husband were the only two left from the whole family, so my brother was here already. Then he started to write us about coming over. To me, it didn’t make any difference because I had nobody, anyway. Since my husband had this brother here, we decided to go. That was in ’51. 

Frankel: You mentioned when we talked on the phone that you did have two nieces who also survived.
GRAETZ: Yes, Anita and Renata. 

Frankel: So they came already here?
GRAETZ: They came from Germany to the states.

Frankel: Do you remember what year?
GRAETZ: ’46.

Frankel: ’46. Had you been aware of them?
GRAETZ: I saw them in Berlin again. Well, I tell you, after I came back after I was in Berlin, I went to the apartment complex where their parents used to live. But nobody was home so I left a message. Then my brother-in-law and sister-in-law came to see me where I lived in Berlin, so I knew that they were alive. The whole family was alive.

Frankel: Now you also mentioned that when you went to your friend’s house whose daughter had a birthday. The person who waited there was Jewish. Who was he and what.
GRAETZ: Well, there were Jewish people who worked for the Gestapo on account that they thought that they wouldn’t be taken away, but that wasn’t so. I remember that there was one lady she even turned her parents in just to be sure that she got somebody, and thought that she wouldn’t be taken away. It was terrible. The Jewish people went for this.

Frankel: Do you remember his name?
GRAETZ: The man who took me? His first name was Kolt, either it was Nauman or Bauman. That’s why I went to Seattle for an interview, and they showed me pictures. But after that many years, I couldn’t recognize him. No. That was then in ‘71.

Frankel: He did survive the war as well. 
GRAETZ: Pardon?

Frankel: He did survive the war as well?
GRAETZ: [nods yes]

Frankel: Also, do you remember the date or the year you were arrested and taken to the transit camp?
GRAETZ: It was in June of ’43. From January ’43 to June I lived underground. From ’43 to January 18, 1945, I was in Auschwitz.

Frankel: Why did they choose that particular group to go to the Block #10? 
GRAETZ: Because we were young. We looked young to them, I don’t know. Her mother was not young, but they took her too. I really don’t know. There were groups: “You do there,” “You do there,” and I don’t know why.

Frankel: So when you were in Auschwitz you didn’t go to work; you stayed in that block the whole time?
GRAETZ: No, when we were not taken for those experimental, they tried artificial insemination and nobody got pregnant. When we arrived, they gave us big suitcases, empty suitcases, and we went out to a field or to woods and had to pick leaves for tea. They had to be filled. You can imagine how long that was. We always had people – the dogs, soldiers and lady soldiers – and sometimes we had a lady soldier and she was from Berlin. She gave us her food to eat. She always asked who was from there. You know, they always ask. We were out all day, rain, shine, no matter. Really, we didn’t have to work, not hard labor, let’s put it this way. 

Frankel: You said it was a men’s camp, so when you went out were you together with the men or?
GRAETZ: No, no. We were only women. 

Frankel: In that block?
GRAETZ: In that block, 10 was only women. Yes. But when we went out to this commando, we had to go through Birkenau, Auschwitz-Birkenau and at that time we could see from our windows still, because there was still people coming, chimney smoking. It was terrible. Because the trains arrived into the gas chambers. 

Frankel: Do you remember the names of the two Belgian women?
GRAETZ: No, I don’t remember. I don’t remember.

Frankel: Can we go back again? Can you give us the names of your parents, both of your mother and father?
GRAETZ: My mother’s first name was Selma [spells it], Tzudova, and her maiden name was Leiser [spells it]. 

Frankel: And your father’s first name?
GRAETZ: Juljus. 

Frankel: Juljus.
GRAETZ: They were born in Posen. It wasn’t Poland, but province Posen. They came to Berlin and got married in 1911.

Frankel: Do you know when they came to Berlin?
GRAETZ: No.

Frankel: And so most of the family came to Berlin at the same time?
GRAETZ: Yes, and we all lived pretty close together. Not close together, but in the same neighborhood.

Frankel: Do you remember a happy childhood?
GRAETZ: Oh, yes. I wasn’t spoiled, but I was happy [laughs].

Frankel: Do you remember any experiences at school? You said in the elementary school, was that a Jewish school?
GRAETZ: No. No. Really it was a Jewish, yes, it was a Jewish school. There you had to go to 18 right away, but I couldn’t make it; I had to get out because my father passed away, and I had to earn money.

Frankel: Was it common for people like you to go to a Jewish school?
GRAETZ: My parents always wanted me to, and me too, because I belonged to a Jewish club. I had Jewish friends so I wanted to go really. We always went to school on Sundays, of course. Because Saturday [were Shabbat].

Frankel: Yes. Did your family used to go to services to synagogue every week?
GRAETZ: Well, no, we did not. We went on holidays, yes. Holidays, yes.

Frankel: And in the summer, what would you do in the summer?
GRAETZ: Well, we went on vacation. We had friends not far from Berlin. It was a little, oh gosh how can I say this? Little farm. They were not Jewish, but I enjoyed it and I had children there to play and all that.

Frankel: The whole family went together?
GRAETZ: No, my parents sent me there. Once I was sent to a Jewish camp. 

Frankel: Outside of Berlin also?
GRAETZ: I didn’t like it. Well, I tell you, there was a contrast. You see, we were middle class and they were high class. I didn’t like the separation, so I didn’t go there any more. I went there once and didn’t like it.

Frankel: Was your family involved in the Zionist movement? Did they ever talk about going to Palestine?
GRAETZ: No, no.

Frankel: Was your family involved in the Jewish community?
GRAETZ: Not very much. Really not very much. I only knew about going to school in a Jewish school, and we had all the holidays were. No.

Frankel: You said you were married in 1936?
GRAETZ: Yes.

Frankel: Was that also the year of the Olympics in Berlin? Do you remember anything?
GRAETZ: 1936. I don’t know too much about it, no. [Ruffling papers]

Frankel: Oh, this is your wedding license?
GRAETZ: Yes.

Frankel: We’ll look at it later again. 
GRAETZ: My birth certificate is someplace there too.

Frankel: And already here you have the stamp with the swastika?
GRAETZ: Yes, that was ’36.

Frankel: When laws restricted the Jews, was there some kind of leadership in the Jewish community telling people to try and leave the country?
GRAETZ: We were, really we were on our own. My husband and I tried in 1938 to go illegally over the borders to Belgium and Luxembourg, but he couldn’t make it. There was plenty of money, but we couldn’t make it. Then when we came back in the beginning of ’39 we saw that with England. He had a friend who could speak very good English already then and he wrote for us to England and things started to roll. When my husband got first his job as a trainee and then they wanted to wait first to see where he was going to and they sent me everything, but then it was too late. I couldn’t get out anymore. That was in ’39 in August. My husband left on the 20th of August ’39.

Frankel: What do you remember of Kristallnacht?
GRAETZ: Well, since I, my brother-in-law, from my husband’s sister, he was from Poland, and he was taken away. He came back. They released him. But other than that, well of course broke windows. My husband stayed home. He wasn’t taken away. They had taken people at that time already to camps and all this. But then my husband’s brother-in-law, they released him and he came home again. Until ’42 when my mother was taken away. It was terrible when they started to burn all the synagogues and stores and all this. But really, I must say, nothing happened to us.

Frankel: Was there a synagogue in your neighborhood?
GRAETZ: Yes.

Frankel: Do you remember things happening? Where were you and what did you do?
GRAETZ: Well, there’s nothing we could do.

Frankel: Do you remember that night?
GRAETZ: This was the synagogue where I got bat mitzvah.

Frankel: You had a bat mitzvah?
GRAETZ: Yes, in 1929. It was the spring, it was a present from family of mine.

Frankel: Did you actually do something in the synagogue?
GRAETZ: Well, it was not a single, you see we don’t have this. They have [Whitsun] over there, which is two days. Then when they have the ceremonies, and there was a group of girls, not a single bat mitzvah like here. We had to wear white, and we all had a Bible and handkerchiefs. That’s all I remember. I have no pictures, nothing.

Frankel: Was it on a Saturday?
GRAETZ: I don’t know. I cannot remember. Always when [Whitsun] was, was seven weeks after Easter . . .

Frankel: What does that mean, [Whitsun]? Is it Jewish?
GRAETZ: No. [Whitsun] is English, but we don’t have this holiday here. What do we have here after Passover?

Frankel: Shavuos.
GRAETZ: That’s it. Yes. Every year. There were quite a few of us and we always had to wear white dresses.

Frankel: Do you remember the name of that synagogue?
GRAETZ: It was only the name of the street: Rykestrasse. 

Frankel: And was that synagogue…?
GRAETZ: Like in our neighborhood, Northeast 55th, you know. Same neighborhood.

Frankel: Was that synagogue destroyed during Kristallnacht?
GRAETZ: Yes. Yes. In front where the custodian lived, and in the back there was the synagogue. Yes, I saw it afterwards when I was in Berlin again. Couldn’t make anything of it. I understand now, they will build it afterwards, but this was then in ’45 and I was in Berlin from ’45 to ’46. We were in Berlin again in 1980. 

Frankel: 1980?
GRAETZ: The German government invited me, like so many other people. You must have heard about this, maybe. My husband didn’t want to go, so I excused myself. I wrote a letter that I was under doctor’s care. Another invitation came. I said the same thing again. My husband didn’t want to go. Then came the third invitation and then I said to my husband, “Well, either we go or then I write. If you don’t want to go, it’s fine. But then I don’t use excuses anymore.” He said, “Well, OK, we go, but we combine it with Israel. If we get a bad taste of Berlin we go to Israel.” So we paid our own fare, but they gave us a hotel for a week, for one week. 

They gave us pocket money, they gave us two theater tickets. They give us pocket money, and they gave us a dinner, and they gave us a half day tour of Berlin. Then we went to, at the time it was Yom Kippur we were in Berlin. I wrote to them that we would like to be near a synagogue as we don’t travel far. Sure enough, they gave us a beautiful hotel, which was finished in 1979 and we were there in ‘80, close to a synagogue (but we didn’t like the service). They told us men and women had to be separate. This is not the point, but they directed us, “You sit there; no, you don’t sit there, you go there. No, you just don’t sit there. You have to sit back.” I didn’t like that for a moment. Same with my husband. But then we went to Israel afterwards, enjoyed that more [laughs].

Frankel: How was it going back to Berlin? 
GRAETZ: Well, we went to the cemetery to visit the grave of my father, I found it. Of course everything was bombed. My husband’s parents were buried there and one brother. He couldn’t go there because everything was so bombed that he couldn’t go to the section. But we had no problem with the border.

Frankel: It was East Berlin?
GRAETZ: Yes. East Berlin. But we had no problem. I saw the house where I was born when we came back from the cemetery, which also was on this side of Berlin in the Russian sector. We had to take a taxi to the station again, and we just drove by the house where we used to live. We didn’t stop.

Frankel: What was your husband’s name?
GRAETZ: His real name was Armandos, but he changed it when we became citizens to Manny.

Frankel: And you said he came to live with you when you got married?
GRAETZ: Yes.

Frankel: Had he lived in Berlin, or did he come from a different place?
GRAETZ: No. He lived in Berlin. He lived with his sister and he worked there in the same big apartment and they could work there. My husband just moved to us, which just was across the street really.

Frankel: And he worked as a tailor?
GRAETZ: Yes. Tailor. 

Frankel: Back to Kristallnacht, did he go back to his work the next day? On November 10, did he go to work as usual that day?
GRAETZ: Oh, this I cannot remember. I don’t know. Maybe took a few days, I really don’t know how it was.

Frankel: But you don’t remember ever talking about now is the time to leave?
GRAETZ: We still didn’t believe that he would last this long. Nobody knew; nobody believed it.

Frankel: When did your husband decide to apply for the job as a trainee in England?
GRAETZ: In 1939 when we couldn’t go over the border to Belgium or Luxembourg. We decided we have to do something.

Frankel: What was the decisive point that made you decide to try and cross the border?
GRAETZ: Well, we thought we could be free. But then it wasn’t so. Because in
Auschwitz, when I was there, we had all, from every nation – Belgium, Holland, Greece, from everywhere. Maybe we would have gone there in any case, if we could have made it. Who knows? 

Frankel: When you were arrested in 1943 did you have any idea of where they would take you?
GRAETZ: No. Never said anything. No.

Frankel: Had you heard the name Auschwitz?
GRAETZ: Not at that time. 

Frankel: Not at that time.
GRAETZ: No. I can’t recall. I only heard that when my mother was taken away in 1942 they mentioned Riga. How did I know where they have taken people? No.

Frankel: Were you aware that the Jewish community of Berlin had practically disappeared by 1943? Were you aware of that?
GRAETZ: Well, I don’t know anything about this then because that was in ’43. No, I really don’t know anything anymore. I don’t know how to explain this. But you know, you were so bitter, and there you worked all day. Well, in ’43 I didn’t know anything anymore because that was in January, when I started to live underground until June. No, I didn’t know. No. I hadn’t heard anything any more. Until I came back to Berlin when they started again the Jewish community building up again, with the registration and all this. Otherwise, I wouldn’t know. What else can I tell you?

Frankel: Is there anything else you would like to add?
GRAETZ: Well, I don’t know. You’ve interviewed more people. This is my version of, my explaining.

Applebaum:  When you returned to Berlin, were any of your friends there? Did you run into any people that you grew up with? Were they all gone?
GRAETZ: No. I didn’t know anybody anymore. I only had this one girl and her brother found her, this Martha, and she didn’t want to go back to Frankfurt.

Frankel: Growing up, had you made non-Jewish friends?
GRAETZ: During this year?

Frankel: Throughout your life in Berlin, had you or your family non-Jewish friends?
GRAETZ: Oh yes. There was this lady who sent me to her parents, and then to the hotel. And we had other friends, oh yes. But still we were mostly among family and Jewish friends.

Frankel: And so did you see those people after the war, the non-Jewish people?
GRAETZ: No, no. 

Frankel: Did you try and look up the parents of these friends?
GRAETZ: No, no. Well, I’ll tell you I was then so busy with the volunteer work —

Frankel: Volunteering? Doing?
GRAETZ: [Frankel says something in the background, Graetz acknowledges]. Yes. We worked evenings at home even. We wanted to have the passport filled out. Then I worked at UNRRA with packages and all this. So I really haven’t had time. There was one couple (they were intermarried), her name was Erika, Erika Fuchs and her husband. These were the friends. And when my husband, through this English soldier, when he sent me packages, I had everything. He sent me mostly cigarettes, and for cigarettes, I could get everything. For American cigarettes I got more than I got for English cigarettes, even the good English cigarettes. Then I exchanged mostly for money. Because I knew I had to pay for my transport to go to England. Food, I had enough.

Frankel: How was that reunion with your husband after the war?
GRAETZ: Oh gosh. After seven years! Strange. You get, how can I say – you get set in your ways. He went through a lot; I went through a lot. It was strange. Well, with Auschwitz, first of all, I was undernourished when I came back to Berlin and all this. When I came to England we lived furnished because my husband worked someplace. Then we moved to another place, also furnished, because then we started off on our own. Then my brother-in-law started to ask us about us coming over. We were always on the go really. We never could settle down over there in England. If we would have stayed there; we were interviewed already by Scotland Yard.

Frankel: In England?
GRAETZ: Yes, to become citizen we were interviewed by Scotland Yard. To become a citizen you have to have your name in the paper three times. If somebody reads this and has something against you, you won’t become a citizen. So we had this already. But then everything came together so [we had to decide to] emigrate to the states or stay there, so we never made it in England. But like I said, we were interviewed and everything. It would have been all right if we decided to stay.

Applebaum:  When you were in Auschwitz you said you saw smoke coming up from the chimneys. 
GRAETZ: From Auschwitz, from Birkenau.

Applebaum: Did you know what that was?
GRAETZ: Human bodies.

Applebaum: You knew that at the time.
GRAETZ: Yes, because the train, they had the rails right into the gas chambers. They didn’t even have to go out. They went right in, and we saw them. It was terrible. We could see it even from our beds, from the top. Because opposite us was the men’s camp and behind this there was [the chambers, and] you could see the smoke. 

Applebaum: So you knew what was going on there.
GRAETZ: Yes.

Applebaum: Did you think that might happen to you?
GRAETZ: If we would have gotten pregnant, yes. If something would happen to us through this artificial insemination, if we would have gotten pregnant, that was the idea.

Applebaum: Was that the only medical experiment that was going on?
GRAETZ: I think so.

Applebaum: That was the only one that you had heard about.
Frankel: Did they explain to you what they were doing and the purpose?
GRAETZ: Well, that’s what they said. But they had beautiful new instruments. I mean, when we came into this huge room, it was lit up, but as soon as you got in, everything was dark. But while you entered, you could see everything was new, all those [instruments] for this purpose.

Frankel: And what did they explain to you? Did they tell you what they were going to do to you?
GRAETZ: Well, that’s what they said. Yes. But then evidently, when this doctor, where we were not supposed to, he did the same thing to women. But evidently something happened that somebody got pregnant, and then they were sent away. That’s why they said don’t go to this doctor, go to Professor Clauber. 

Frankel: When the Russians came to the camp to liberate it, you were there at the time?
GRAETZ: Well, the Germans let us out. 

Applebaum: The Germans let you out?
GRAETZ: Yes.

Applebaum: Before the Russians came?
GRAETZ:     Yes. They sent us out, because they said the Russians were bombing, but this was the Germans themselves. But later on then, when we went into Germany more, out of Poland, then we had the Russians. They were those Mongols, and I tell you, they were even worse than anybody. They didn’t want to believe us. They said in German, “No Jews.” They were told that no Jews are alive any more. That’s what they were told and they thought we had our number put in, think to be Jewish. But then when this German officer came, Hessian officer came, who spoke a little Yiddish, then we were OK. He explained to them and they let go of us. 

Frankel: Why did you decide to have the number removed?
GRAETZ: Well, I tell you, when I came over here, I worked at Jantzen Knitting Mills and I worked on a sewing machine. Where I was sitting, they were taking tours, like the synagogue takes tours. They also talked to us. Everybody ask, (I was sitting like this [gestures] whoever was sitting on the inside, but I was sitting outside)… Everybody ask [questions], but never mind they wanted to see what I was doing, but they looked at the number. Then I had some cream to put on it, but this [broke it] off. And I said to myself, I’m not going to do that. That was my decision.

Frankel: You didn’t want to explain to people?
GRAETZ: No. No. I explain so much already and that’s another thing. Maybe I would have talked to you before, but my husband never wanted me to.

Frankel: Did he know what happened to you at Auschwitz?
GRAETZ: Yes.

Frankel: Did you come straight to Portland?
GRAETZ: From England? No. We came to and stayed in New York. We left England on the 17th of April; it was Passover. We came to New York and we stayed in New York for a few days. Then we went to Dayton, Ohio, where my brother and sister-in-law’s parents used to live. Then we went to Chicago where my husband’s cousin lived, and then we came out. We arrived in Portland on the 10th of May in ’51.

Frankel: That’s where his brother was already.
GRAETZ: Yes. His brother was here. When he gave us the affidavit, it was Dayton, Ohio. So, we went to Dayton, Ohio. All of a sudden it changed to Portland. We didn’t know one from the other.

Applebaum: So this is the anniversary of you coming to Portland, May 10. How did you get to New York from England? Take a boat?
GRAETZ: Yes. We were so sick! It was my fault. My husband wanted to fly and I didn’t want to fly, so it was six days on the water, on the boat. We were so sick. Yes. By boat. Well, I tell you, we thought we make it our vacation. We paid our fare from England to Portland, and we thought we make it our vacation because we knew that when we came to Portland, we have to start new. That was the vacation. We came out from Chicago by train; we had a sleeper. We could pay everything from England.

Frankel: And did your husband find a job right away?
GRAETZ: Well, not in tailoring. Not in the tailoring because it was a slick time, he worked for “A Perfect Fit.”  They made seat covers for cars. He worked in different places after that in tailoring, but then his last was he worked for 20 years at Sears.

Frankel: How sewing? 
GRAETZ: Tailoring, yes.

Frankel: And how long did you work at Jantzen?
GRAETZ: I worked nine years, from ’51 to ’60. It was piecework, and it was too much for me. I was working for nine years.

Frankel: And then you stopped working?
GRAETZ: I stopped working, yes.

Applebaum: You never had any children?
GRAETZ: No, this was the reason. This was another reason. In England, when I came, first of all, I was undernourished. And then, well, our life was so messed up. We lived furnished and we moved, we lived furnished again. Then we came over. Another thing is I tell you, I was afraid to have children because I never knew what they did to me. Really. Maybe I would have had a child, which was normal, but what do I know? It was mostly fear, you know. Then when we came over here, we had to start new again. Then you get older and I didn’t have the patience anymore. Not even adopting.

Applebaum: Did you ever have any doctor examine you to see if the Germans damaged you?
GRAETZ:  Well, yes, the German government sent me to a doctor here in Portland. Have you ever heard of Dr. [Kinsle]? I don’t know if he’s not in practice any more.

Applebaum: Did he find anything?
GRAETZ: No, but then I was older. I didn’t want to have children anymore. I tell you, the German government was . . . When I started making applications for, you know, for getting — 

Frankel: Reparations?
GRAETZ: Yes. 
They sent me, the German government sent me to a doctor here in Portland (I’m talking about Portland) to a Dr. [Bielstein]. I don’t know if he was Jewish or not, I don’t know. He said, “So good” for the German government. Everything was all right. Nothing . . . I was in Auschwitz, but that doesn’t matter. That has nothing to do with me. He said, “Very good for the German government.” But they didn’t believe it. A person who was in Auschwitz cannot be like he said.

Frankel: In such good health?
GRAETZ: In such good health, yes. So, they sent me to another doctor. Which happened to be our doctor. It was at that time, Dr. Levy. Of course he said to me right away, he cannot do anything special. Listen, the German government sent me to him, I didn’t go to him for this purpose. It was better. Evidently it was all right. Even the German government paid for this [gestures to arm].

Frankel: To remove the number?
GRAETZ: Yes. Well, I sent the bill in. They reimbursed me, yes. Here, they wouldn’t do it. They wouldn’t pay for it; my insurance wouldn’t pay for it. They say because it’s cosmetic. But there, they paid for it. I mean they reimbursed me for it, lets put it that way.

Applebaum: When you moved to Portland, did you move to this apartment?
GRAETZ: Well, no, we moved to Portland in ’51, and we lived about a year in an apartment on the Northeast side. Then my brother-in-law, at that time, they lived here in the same complex, only on the other side in a three-bedroom apartment. We liked it. We lived in the house from ’52 till ’79. 27 years. 

Oh, after the apartment we bought a house on NE 68th between Sandy Boulevard and Rose City Golf Course. Then my brother-in-law and sister-in-law they used to live here in the back there, a three bedroom. We had in mind to sell it because it was then too much. We always said, “This is nice and this is nice.” Then it came in ’79 we moved. We had this same apartment upstairs. It was nice. Beautiful view. But then it became too much for my husband, the stairs. There was next door an apartment. We didn’t like that one because the cars, the parking lot, it was so much noise. And the fumes! Then we lived there for a year or two years, and somebody was evicted in this apartment, so we took this.

Applebaum: You said that the German government had invited you over to Germany and they paid your medical bills and whatever. Had you initially contacted them to let them know where you were and that you wanted payments? I don’t understand how they knew where you were?
GRAETZ: Well, I don’t really know how it started. There must have been an article in the AufBau, a German-Jewish paper that I subscribe to. I think I wrote, yes, I must have written; otherwise they wouldn’t know.

Applebaum: What was the article about that you wrote them?
GRAETZ: That they were inviting people to see their homeland again.

Applebaum: You received medical treatment before that?
GRAETZ: Medical treatment?

Applebaum: You said that they sent you to a doctor here in Portland.
GRAETZ: Oh, oh, this was the German government. Yes.

Applebaum: But how did you, how did they know to contact you?
GRAETZ: This was then from at the same time… how did they contact me? See, you got me there [laughs].

Frankel: Did you apply for reparations?
GRAETZ: Yes, yes. Then they sent you forms to fill out. The German government sent you this many papers [gestures]. If they start sending you, then they do it. It must have been, from thereon, it always went. When they started to send me to this doctor and another doctor, then how the things just started rolling.

Applebaum: Every time that you wanted to see a different doctor or whatever, did you have to send a letter to Germany?
GRAETZ: No. They did it. They got all your files there and from there on it goes. Like in this case, this Dr. Levy he was just a general practitioner. Like now, you go to specialist, they send you.

Applebaum: How did you get permission?
GRAETZ: They send him papers and then they make an appointment with me. I should come then and then. Because the German government sent them papers.

Applebaum: From Germany?
GRAETZ: From Germany. It was very hard for them. Even those doctors they had to hire people who speak German if they don’t speak German themselves. I don’t know how much. Dr. Levy always said, “Well, we don’t get paid much for this.” I don’t know how much they got paid for that. I have no idea. But once you start sending in papers, then they do things, and send you to different people.

Applebaum: You still receive any correspondence from them? When did you say you went to Germany? It was 19–
GRAETZ: 1980.

Applebaum: Have you heard back from them since then?
GRAETZ: No. 

Applebaum: That was the last time.
GRAETZ: They sent you one time an invitation. Well they send you more invitations, but one time they’re paying for it. In our case, we paid, our family, they paid the fare also. But there was a group, we didn’t go with the group, we went on our own.

Frankel: Were there other people who were visiting Berlin, former Jews who had been invited by the government at the time when you went?
GRAETZ: Yes, there was one girl from Israel and there was one more couple. I think we were just a few of us.
Frankel: Did you know any of them from the past?
GRAETZ: No, no.

Applebaum: What did it feel like when you landed in Israel?
GRAETZ: Well, we were in Israel four times. The first time was in 1971, then we were in ’73 when the war broke out, then we were in ’77 and in ’80. ’80 was the last time. Because in ’71 and in ’73 I had a cousin over there living, but in the meantime they passed both away. We stayed with them in ’71 and ’73. In ’77 and ’80 we stayed in a hotel. We knew people, let’s put it this way.

Applebaum: Did you ever think about moving to Israel?
GRAETZ: In ’71 when we were there my cousins used to live near Haifa, in Keek-Bialik (or Kiryat Bialik). Near there, there was a – it was not a nursing home, really it was like apartments. We tried to get in there, but we were not old enough. You had to be 65; we were not old enough and there was a long waiting list. There were two things against us. Even so, my cousin had a friend who spoke for us and it didn’t work. At that time we wanted to, yes, but not afterwards, anymore. That was all in ’80, the last time.

Applebaum: When did your husband pass away?
GRAETZ: In August, it will be three years.

Applebaum: What did he die from?
GRAETZ: Cancer. Yes. You know, I don’t want to say “it’s funny;” he emigrated from Berlin on the 20th of August in ’39 and he was buried on the 20th of August in ’90. He died on the 18th of August. Isn’t that a coincidence? Yes. Listen, I have prepared a little food. OK? It didn’t take that long.

[short conversation and some laughter]

Applebaum: The video will probably be seen by some high school kids who have no experience.
GRAETZ: Everything? Even my crying?

Applebaum: Maybe they’ll just hear instead of seeing, OK? But they’ll look to the video or audiotape to get insight from you, what they can do to make the world better. Do you have any insight that you can tell someone who might be watching this ten years from now?
GRAETZ: Well, first of all, I always say, “Please do not hate anybody for their religion. Take them as they are. Talk to them. Be friendly.” Hatred is the worst thing that can be. Hate. Think before you speak. Just talk things out. Be friendly. That’s all, really.

Frankel: [Asking Inge to talk about documents and photos she has there] 

GRAETZ: This is from 1948 [her travel documents]. I don’t have an original.

GRAETZ: [reading the document] It says . . . I cannot see the small print.

Applebaum: Here, come sit next to me.
GRAETZ: [Reads her marriage license in German. She translates it into English also]

Frankel: [Asking Inge to elaborate a little. Asks about where her husband was born]

Frankel: You had another document?
GRAETZ: Only my birth certificate. Do I have to translate all that? [Starts reading] It’s impossible to translate that! I really don’t know how to explain this. During the war…I don’t know, I can’t read that.

Applebaum: Who are these people on the television? [camera is on photos which are on the screen]
GRAETZ: This was my husband and this is when they came over to the states. That was in New Jersey or New York.

Applebuam: The one on the right?
GRAETZ: This is me. This is my husband, and this is a friend. She also worked at [Zeemans] at the same time I did. She lives in New Jersey now.

Applebaum: You still keep in contact with her?
GRAETZ: Yes. Incidentally she called me last night. 
This is when I came to England. That’s me.

Applebaum: In the middle with the gray dress.
GRAETZ: Yes, that’s my husband.

Applebaum: On the left side.
GRAETZ: Yes. This is the same girl from [Zeemans]. The tall one in the back was her husband. This one is another friend, and this was a landlord; we used to live in their place.

Applebaum: The one on the right is the landlord.
GRAETZ: Yes. 
Oh, yes, this is 1939. I sent this, or my husband took this to England. That’s me in 1939. What this all means, the whole thing, is that during the war that the originals are not anymore, and this is just a copy. A copy of the original. Here’s my name, the date, and where it was registered [looking at marriage license].a

Applebaum: In Berlin? The same word in German as it is in English? Wedding?
GRAETZ: Wedding? No. Wedding is a district. This is a district. Berlin Wedding.

Applebaum: Oh, a district. OK.
GRAETZ: Like, I say, it’s just a copy. 

Applebaum: Do you have anything else, Sylvia?
GRAETZ: No, that’s all I have.

Frankel: I want to thank you very much for telling us your story.
GRAETZ: As good as I know how to explain it.