Helen Blumenthal

BLUMENTHAL: When they [my grandparents] came to the United States they lived in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Zalutsky: What do you remember about them?
BLUMENTHAL: My grandfather had a tremendous influence on me. He was a Hasid, so I think my love of Jewish education comes directly from my grandfather. We were very close to them. My grandmother, for a so-called uneducated Jewish woman, could read Hebrew and could read Yiddish, which at that time was quite unusual.

Zalutsky: Now, it was your mother’s parents that you are referring to? And where did your father’s parents come from?
BLUMENTHAL:  My father’s parents came from Russia. I am not sure just where, because my father was born in Wisconsin. My grandfather was one of the early Jewish farmers in the state of Wisconsin.

Zalutsky: Did both sets of grandparents live in Wisconsin?
BLUMENTHAL: Yes.

Zalutsky: What do you remember about your father’s parents?
BLUMENTHAL:  My father’s father was kind of an eccentric but he was alert and alive until the day that he died. He did many things that were unusual for that time. He was an inventor; he had all kinds of small inventions, including cars that ran without gasoline. I don’t remember my grandmother too well because she died when I was four or five years old. But the story [that] had been told [to] me [was that] she had raised the children practically by herself. And she was a fantastic cook. I can remember her bread and jams and that was about it.

Zalutsky: What things did you do with them?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, not too much with my father’s parents. They say my grandfather had remarried and he was always involved in all kinds of business deals–this kind of thing. I remember [he was] always writing letters. He could not read or write English, and in the family it was always a Sunday afternoon chore as to who was going to write Grandpa’s business letters. Of course, my older sister did and then she would duck out of the house and I would do it. We didn’t have that much communication with them but we were always very close to my mother’s parents. So I would go to synagogue and spend our holidays with them and spend a great deal of time with them.

Zalutsky: What was your father’s name?
BLUMENTHAL:  My father’s name, and he is still living, is Max Weinberg.

Zalutsky: And where was he born?
BLUMENTHAL:  He was born in Wisconsin, in a little town called Helen’s Corner, after which I am named.

Zalutsky: And what year was that?
BLUMENTHAL: I think my father is 82, so I would have to figure back on that. I can do that later. [1895]

Zalutsky: What did your father tell you about his childhood?
BLUMENTHAL:  He grew up on a farm and he had, I think, seven or eight sisters, and he had one brother and they were just 11 months apart. So there were many stories of mischief and things that they got into on the farm. He told me about the little red schoolhouse which he attended [that] now is a historical monument in the state of Wisconsin. The family were friends of Golda Meir. I have recollections from my aunts. One of my aunts went to school with Golda Meir, both public school and normal school in Milwaukee.

Zalutsky: How long did your father go to school?
BLUMENTHAL:  My father is a high school graduate.

Zalutsky: And how was he employed? You mentioned farming.
BLUMENTHAL:  He stayed on the farm until he was about 17 and then he came into Milwaukee. He was in the radio business for many years and then shortly after the Depression he finally went into the laundry business with a cousin of mine.

Zalutsky: Did he have a variety of jobs?
BLUMENTHAL: Yes.

Zalutsky: Besides the laundry business, were there others?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I can remember the Depression very well. During the Depression he did anything and every thing he could to support the family.

Zalutsky: What was your mother’s maiden name?
BLUMENTHAL:  Her name was Birnbaum.

Zalutsky: Where and when was she born?
BLUMENTHAL: My mother is still living and my mother was born, as I say, in Poland. My mother is 78; that would be 1898.

Zalutsky: And how long did she go to school?
BLUMENTHAL: My mother did not go to school at all in Europe. She went to work at the age of about five or six, but I give her great credit because after my brother was born, she went to school and she eventually earned a high school diploma.

Zalutsky: And was she ever employed after that?
BLUMENTHAL: Yes, my mother was a seamstress. In fact, she still is doing work at home.

Zalutsky: How did you feel about that?
BLUMENTHAL: About her being employed?

Zalutsky: Yes.
BLUMENTHAL: Well, she wasn’t employed when I was a child. After I left home to go to school, my family had to move from Milwaukee to Chicago for business reasons. It was then that my mother really went to work out side of the home, and so I really don’t have too much reaction to that.

Zalutsky: What did you like to do with your mother when you were small?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, my mother was also very busy. Those were the days when it was very hard to earn a living. She often would help my father in the store, but the family would go on picnics or we would ride in the country – a Sunday afternoon ride was a big thing – and go into all the small little towns that my father remembered.

Zalutsky: What did you like to do with your father?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, there again he worked very late and it was mostly driving with him and visiting the small towns. He had a lot of relatives in the state of Wisconsin, all over, and we were always visiting somebody on a Sunday.

Zalutsky: Were there things other than visiting that you liked to do as a family?
BLUMENTHAL: Not really. My sisters and brothers were not that close as children. We were very individualistic, and we all kind of went our own way.

Zalutsky: Were you closer to one parent?
BLUMENTHAL:  I don’t think so.

Zalutsky: As a child, did you want some day a life like your parents?
BLUMENTHAL:  Not to the extent that I wanted to go through a Depression the way they did. No. Even though I understood as a child the situation at home, I certainly hoped that I wouldn’t have to go through that kind of an experience.

Zalutsky: Did your parents discuss politics?
BLUMENTHAL: Primarily in reference to economics, because that was the big thing.

Zalutsky: How about religion?
BLUMENTHAL:  Religion was discussed. But there again, I think that the Depression has to be taken into consideration, because my father working late at nights sometimes didn’t have the religious responsibility to the extent that perhaps my grandfather did, in seeing that we got to religious school and cheder and that kind of thing.

Zalutsky: It seems that the views of your grandparents influenced you. To what extent did their views influence the views you hold today?
BLUMENTHAL:  Oh, greatly. I think I stated that. I don’t think that there is any question.
 
Zalutsky: You have brothers and sisters?
BLUMENTHAL: I have one brother and two sisters.

Zalutsky: And what are their names?
BLUMENTHAL:  I have a sister living in Israel whose name is Rivka Henegby. I have a sister in Chicago – in Park Forest, Illinois – whose name is Susan Garb. I have a brother in San Diego whose name is Alfred Weinberg.

Zalutsky: And when were they born?
BLUMENTHAL: I can’t remember. It is always hard. My sister in Israel is older than I am. She will be 58. My sister in Chicago is younger, about five years younger. She would be 48. And my brother was just 45.

Zalutsky: What kind of things did you do with them when you were kids?
BLUMENTHAL: We argued a lot because we all had strong personalities. We would go to the park and play and this type of thing. Again, we had a strong family feeling, but we all had very different interests.

Zalutsky: What kind of things did you argue about?
BLUMENTHAL: I suppose the same kind of things that most kids argue about. My oldest sister and I would get into, even at a very young age, ideological arguments, because her views of Zionism were very different than my views of Zionism. My brother was so much younger than the rest of us, and of course, being the youngest we didn’t argue too much with him. He was kind of considered special. My younger sister and I had a poor relationship because of many reasons. I don’t want to go into the psychological reasons but she was very temperamental. She was considered to be the sickly one in the family and so you didn’t do anything. I have always felt that being in the middle of three girls I was very put upon. My older sister, I was too young to go with her, and yet I was old enough to take care of my younger sister.

Zalutsky: With your older sister, how did your views on Zionism differ?
BLUMENTHAL: Again, this might be [getting] ahead of myself, but she was into [the] Labor Zionism movement very heavily. In fact, she was probably – well, it is a Communist group, and while I joined that in the beginning, I sometimes amaze myself that at a rather young age, at the age of 12 or 13, I was able to figure out that this was not what I wanted. That it was a Communist group and that there were other ways of doing things.

Zalutsky: You were very young. Were there many young people involved in that kind of movement?
BLUMENTHAL:  Growing up in Milwaukee, almost all my friends were. It was either Young Judea or whatever. Milwaukee has a very strong labor movement, plus a very strong Zionist movement, and it still does, so that it was just part of our growing up.

Zalutsky: You mentioned Golda Meir.
BLUMENTHAL: Yes.

Zalutsky: Was that movement a strong influence on her?
BLUMENTHAL: Yes, I am sure that growing up in a city such as Milwaukee; we had a socialist mayor for many years. Growing up in that type of atmosphere, Golda Meir in her book said that the influence of living in Milwaukee, and the Jewish community, and the kind of Jewish community it was, had an influence upon her.

Zalutsky: With whom did you spend most of your times?
BLUMENTHAL: I was a loner and I also had two very good friends.

Zalutsky: What kind of things did you do together?
BLUMENTHAL:  I was kind of a tomboy, believe it or not, and I was a nice, fat, happy little kid. I was in the Girl Scouts, and I would go hiking and outdoors, and also a great reader. I began reading and had picked that interest up.

Zalutsky: When and where were you born?
BLUMENTHAL:  I was born in Milwaukee on May 5th, 1923.

Zalutsky: And your family originally came from Russia, I think you mentioned, and Poland?
BLUMENTHAL: Yes.

Zalutsky: What were their reasons for leaving?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, my mother’s family had left because of very difficult times, financially. My grandfather, my father’s father, had left at a very young age. I think he and his future wife were engaged, but he left because he was to be taken into the army. So he escaped from Russia and he came to Wisconsin first and then, after earning enough money, sent for my grandmother.

Zalutsky: Why did he came to Wisconsin and the United States?
BLUMENTHAL:  I think there was an older brother there and also, as I said, I come from a family that didn’t always follow the norm. He didn’t want to stay in New York. He wanted a more rural type of life.

Zalutsky: What other expectations did they come with and what was it like for them getting into the United States.
BLUMENTHAL:  I really don’t know. I think my mother’s family was extremely poor and I think whatever they had, financially, was greater than what they had in Poland. My father’s family, probably the same thing. A freer life for their children. No antisemitism and this type of thing.

Zalutsky: In what respects were their expectations realized? Or not realized?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I think the children, on the whole, had a better education. All of their children. My father’s family, his youngest sister managed to get through college. That is my father’s family. In my mother’s family, the entire family helped her youngest brother get through medical school. So there were educational expectations and to a degree, financial [ones]. But then of course the Depression came along and affected my family greatly.

Zalutsky: Your family elected not to settle in New York and went to Wisconsin. What difficulties did they encounter in settling?
BLUMENTHAL: I really don’t know. I think my father’s father–he had a brother and he did manage to own some property. In fact, the story is that he won it in a poker game. And he had some property, which his wife and children farmed, and he had a store on the four corners and he sold merchandise

Zalutsky: What year did you…?
BLUMENTHAL: I came to Portland in 1945.

Zalutsky: What made you decide to come to Oregon?
BLUMENTHAL:  I had met my husband when I was in the service. I was in Seattle at the time and we decided to settle in Portland, which was his home.

Zalutsky: What did you envision Oregon to be like?
BLUMENTHAL:  Well, for some reason as a child I had always thought of Lewis and Clark as being very romantic, and the whole Columbia River. I was interested in history and I suppose I had a very romantic idea of living out here. But when I came, I think by that time I was mature enough to realize that it was a city pretty much like any other city.

Zalutsky: What were your expectations?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, my husband had had a year of dental school before he went into the service and he returned to dental school after he got out of the service. I had been a pre-med and at one time I had thought of going back to school. I worked here for a while before I had my first child, and I think our expectations were pretty middle class: expectations of a family and a home.

Zalutsky: In what respect were your expectations realized or not realized?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, my husband finished school. We have children. Financially, we are comparatively well off. There are some things within the community that disturb me. My two older children did not marry Jewish people. I am concerned about the survival of Judaism in a city such as Portland. I think there is almost too much freedom.

Zalutsky: You mentioned that there have been changes in Portland and indicate something about your feelings about freedom. Do you want to say anything more about how you feel about that?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, in one respect I think it is very good. For instance, my husband’s best friend, as a boy (they were both only children) is Catholic. We are just as comfortable in a non-Jewish group as a Jewish group. But on the other hand I haven’t come across the commitment to Judaism that I did as a child, although I taught religious school here for many years. I don’t know if it’s that we are not a center of Jewish study. I don’t know exactly what the problem is. But I don’t think that people are really committed to Judaism.

Zalutsky: How about the neighborhood where you first lived when you came to Portland? What kind of people lived in the neighborhood?
BLUMENTHAL: We lived in a housing project. We lived at Columbia Villa. I don’t know how much you know about that. At the time we lived there, the income level of admission was so low that almost everyone was [a] student. All of the people living there were students going to school under the GI Bill. There were only two Jewish families. There was Muriel Honig, who was Mr. Mosler’s daughter, who lived at Columbia Villa. Her husband was going to medical school at the time. My husband, of course, was going to dental school.

Zalutsky: What were the things you liked best about your neighborhood?
BLUMENTHAL:  I really didn’t like it. There were a lot of children, considering that Columbia Villa was a good place to live at that time. We had very adequate housing and it was inexpensive. I felt rather remote from the community because it was quite a ways out, and then I had two small children by that time, so I was rather confined and couldn’t get out a great deal.

Zalutsky: How did people get along with one another?
BLUMENTHAL:  Great. In fact too great. That was one of our objections to living there. It was like one great big happy family.

Zalutsky: Were there hard times?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, really not hard times, because we had the expectation that this wasn’t going to last forever. That we knew that eventually Edgar would get out of school and hopefully our situation would end. He worked very hard. He held part time jobs and he worked. Looking back, I sometimes think that today’s woman probably would have continued working even with children, but in those days it just wasn’t done.

Zalutsky: Was that true also with the neighbors? Were women not working as much at that time?
BLUMENTHAL: They weren’t working. Plus the fact that right after the war there was a baby boom and most families out there had several children, even while their husbands were in school.

Zalutsky: Now, when you came to Portland, it was after the Depression, but you did mention that you remember the Depression.
BLUMENTHAL: I remember it very vividly. I was born in 1923, and so the Depression my family was affected by it greatly.

Zalutsky: How did they cope? How did you all cope with the Depression?
BLUMENTHAL:  Well, my dad I think coped whatever way he could. He just did anything, from taking a truck and going out and collecting burlap bags, to just about anything he could find to support the children and a wife on.

Zalutsky: Where did you go to school?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I went to high school in Wisconsin – in Milwaukee. And then I went to the University of Akron in Ohio. I lived with an aunt and an uncle, and I had three years of college before I went into the service.

Zalutsky: What things did you particularly enjoy there, at the University?
BLUMENTHAL: I was a pre-med, so I worked very hard. My uncle, who died just recently, was a music buff. I am very interested in classical music, even though I don’t play. He’s the one, I think, who got us started reading as young children by sending us books. I read a great deal, did a lot of walking, dated, but I think most of my work was centered at the school.

Zalutsky: What was it about medicine that interested you?
BLUMENTHAL: I don’t know. Of course, in those days, it was kind of unusual for a woman to be thinking of it. And now I think back, you know, I would be ready to retire, practically. I had always been interested in medicine. I had taken first aid courses. Of course, I admired my uncle very greatly. That might have had some psychological reason for it. Just the whole field of medicine. Particularly, psychiatry interested me, which was what I intended to do.

Zalutsky: Did you encounter any prejudice?
BLUMENTHAL:  Not really. Not really that I was aware of.

Zalutsky: What do you think of the way people are educated today?
BLUMENTHAL: What do you mean by that?

Zalutsky: Well, that’s a broad question. I think you may interpret it anyway you want.
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I find as far as the children are concerned, there are six years difference between my two boys, and where they went to the same school, I think there was a great change in the educational system — for the worse. I think there was too much laxness. There wasn’t enough structure, and I think now that perhaps going back to a more structured educational program… I don’t think that there is enough incentive for the kids to really put their effort into. 

Zalutsky: What was your first job?
BLUMENTHAL: My first job was after I left Akron. When my uncle went into the service, and before I went into the service, I was going to school during the day. I was taking some classes and I worked as an admission’s clerk at Cook County General Hospital in the psychiatric division.

Zalutsky: How old were you then?
BLUMENTHAL: I was about 19.

Zalutsky: Why did you leave that job?
BLUMENTHAL:  Because I wanted to go into the service and my parents wouldn’t sign for me. I was underage and so they said if I still wanted to go when I was 20, or after six months, they would sign for me. So I quit that job and went to work as a riveter.

Zalutsky: Was that the only other job which you have had, or were there others?
BLUMENTHAL:  No. From the riveting I went into the service. They saw I meant business and so I went into the service just before I was 20. Then after I got out of the service, we came to Portland and I worked as a nurse in a doctor’s office in Portland.
 
Zalutsky: I’m intrigued. What was it like to be a riveter?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I don’t know. I worked the late shift and made a lot of money. I have always kind of accepted the people around me for what people are, and so I accepted it for what it was. I didn’t look to it for a great future, but it was a means of earning money and doing something at the same time.

Zalutsky: Did riveting take place inside a factory or outside?
BLUMENTHAL:  We were in a factory. DC 3s. I think Douglas Aircraft had a plant in Park Ridge, Illinois.

Zalutsky: Were there many other women involved in riveting?
BLUMENTHAL:  At that time, yes.

Zalutsky: In what ways were these jobs valuable experiences?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I think any relationship with people, particularly people who may not come from the same type of background that you do, is an experience. I think you learn to accept people for what they are and value them for being human beings whether they came, as I say, from the same background that you do or not.

Zalutsky: What led to your decision to return to school? Were there experiences, were there people who influenced your decision?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I had been active in the Jewish community and I have been on the National Board of Hadassah. My children were grown. I had one in high school and I was kind of drifting for a while. Then there was a great deal of feeling about the Middle East study center in Portland State University, about them being antisemitic and anti-Israel, etc. So I thought the best way to find this out would be to go to school. And so I first attended to see whether I could handle a full time load or how much; I took a summer course [at the] Middle-East study institute. I managed that all right and so I decided to get my certificate in Middle East studies.

Zalutsky: What was the content of some of your studies?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, fortunately Portland State accepted my previous credits so that I didn’t have to take things like third year chemistry or fourth year Math, because by the time you went back to school, things had changed and I had forgotten so much, which is one reason why I did not continue in the medical field. I completely changed areas. I didn’t have to take math and science and that type of requirements, and so most of the work that I took was language. I took Hebrew, and then centered on Middle East studies, taking history, sociology, political science, and anything related to the Middle East, geography.

Zalutsky: What kind of encouragement did family and friends offer?
BLUMENTHAL: They were great. My husband knows that if I don’t have something to do, I get restless, and I could not have done it without him. I had just my one son at home and he thought mother’s going to school was great. He was in high school by that time. There is a tremendous… it was really before – there weren’t too many women my age at school at that time, and I think my going to school, I know that several of my friends, after I had finished, decided that they would return.

Zalutsky: Were there any ways in which your being Jewish was an obstacle to the pursuance of your goals?
BLUMENTHAL:  A little bit, yes, because being in the Middle East studies and the program at Portland State is really geared towards Arabic studies. At the present time, I find that if I knew Arabic or… even in Portland here, there is a big import and export company, which I had – because my husband knows the owner of it – if I hadn’t been Jewish, I perhaps would have been hired. But because most of their trade was with Saudi Arabia, it was impossible. So that because of the area that I chose, and Israel being so small compared to the number of Arab countries, that it’s kind of limited, the type of work that I could go into.
 
Zalutsky: You mentioned activities that you have be n involved with, outside of your career, outside of your home life, and some of these activities involved quite an active experience in Zionist work. I am wondering what kind of experiences you had in Zionist organizations?
BLUMENTHAL: When I first …

Zalutsky: You were telling something about your Zionist activities.
BLUMENTHAL: Well, when I first came to Portland, I tried to find the Labor Zionist group. Even though I wasn’t interest in the left wing group, such as [word missing], which was not in Portland, there was also not [name missing] which was the women’s Zionist group that Golda Meir was affiliated with, and still is. So I realized that if I was going to do anything at all, it would probably be Hadassah. I became interested in Hadassah and still lived at Columbia Villa. Hadassah had a tremendous program of study groups, and so Muriel Honig and I would go to evening study groups while our husbands studied and babysat. Then from Hadassah there was a Zionist Council, at one time, that I was member of and a chairman of. There were speakers’ bureaus that I was involved in. I sat on the community relations council of the Federation. And in ’67, after the [Six-Day] War started, [I] helped to establish, and was the first chairman of, the speaker’s bureau in the Middle East task force of the Federation.

Zalutsky: Were you active in counteracting the American Council for Judaism?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, they were pretty active at the time I first came to Portland. I came in 1945 and right around that time, the foundation of the State in 1948, they were very active then. I really wasn’t that involved in the community at that time. I was still pretty occupied at home with the children and other things. In later years, when it did crop up with these other organizations, I tried to combat it.

Zalutsky: What did they stand for?
BLUMENTHAL: They stood for that Judaism was strictly a religion, and not as a national unit, so that they were anti-establishing a State of Israel.

Zalutsky: Have you ever been involved in politics?
BLUMENTHAL:  Not really, just worked for candidates that type of things, but not politically.

Zalutsky: Were there some people you have been associated with through politics?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I know Edith Green. I know Governor McCall. I know Governor Straub. I know Senator Hatfield, but I’m not too proud of that. We are fairly friendly with the Packwoods. My husband, being a native Portlander, was a Republican, and I am a registered Democrat. He was very active for a long time in the Young Republicans in Portland and through that we became friends with many of these people.

Zalutsky: In what direction do you perceive this state and country heading politically?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I think we are going through a great change with Carter, and either we are going to become a much more socialized state, or if the people don’t accept that, then I think we are going to go to the opposite extreme and become extremely conservative in our approach.

Zalutsky: Do you favor one approach over the other, and what are your feelings about it?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I admit that I have socialist tendencies, probably because of my early background. When I first came to Portland and my husband’s family were all Republicans, and I went to register and I wanted to register Socialist, of course, I was practically thrown out of the house. But I compromised and signed up as a Democrat because there was no Socialist Party. I do not agree with the Socialist Left Party, for instance those active at Portland State, because of their stand on Israel and so forth. I believe in socialism to the extent that I believe in public utilities being owned by the people. I mean being owned by the people or the government, rather than private. This type of socialism is what I mean. The socialism of Norman Thomas.

Zalutsky: Was there a relationship in your feelings about socialism to the idea of freedom? In any way?
BLUMENTHAL:  I don’t know what you mean by freedom, but I think that socialism, in my opinion, would give a broader base to the American people. So that people would not have to spend so much of their time, so much of their life, worried about economics, and perhaps would have time to pursue other interests.

Zalutsky: In a way, that would be a kind of freedom. Was there a difference in the past in the amount of freedom an individual had? Let’s say, in the past, maybe before the country started heading in the direction in which you see it?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I think we still have so much bureaucracy at the present time that people know what you are doing. I mean all these secret files that the government has on you, so that this kind freedom – I think that the government knows too much about individuals that really isn’t necessary for them to know. Personally, I think that most people have less worry about economics than they did before, which gives them some time, some additional time to pursue other activities.

Zalutsky: How do you compare life today with life 30 years ago? You are young, and I can’t go back too far.
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I think we are much too materialistic. The other day, I wanted something. I was looking at something. It was a pretty object and somebody said, “Do you really need it?” And it’s been bothering me, because how much do people need? I think while we need a roof and a change of clothing, I wonder how much of the material possessions we have we really need to survive.

Zalutsky: Has the importance of things now changed in respect to how important they were to you then? Say 20 or 30 years ago?
BLUMENTHAL: I think so, because it’s hard for me to judge, for instance, what the city like Milwaukee is now, although I do go back frequently, or back to Chicago. I have always felt in Portland that there is a real social ladder built on materialism. Perhaps because my family appreciated education. I was the last one in my family actually to have a college degree. Both my brother and my sister in Israel are Ph.Ds., and my other sister and I have Masters now. We had a great feeling for education. There are members in my family, cousins, etc., who are involved in government in high-level positions in government. So that it’s hard for me to care, you know, what I wanted 30 years ago as to what exists today in Portland. I think I have achieved certain things. Thirty years ago I wanted to be a doctor, which I’m not, but on the other hand, there are other things that I am and that I believe in.

Zalutsky: It sounds like you, yourself, place less emphasis or stress on material things.
BLUMENTHAL:  I think I do. I appreciate the finer things of life; [but] I don’t think they’re the most important things.

Zalutsky: Have you done any travelling?
BLUMENTHAL: Yes, I have been to Israel twice, once with my husband and once with a Hadassah Study Tour. We’ve been to Spain, to England, and I have travelled extensively in the United States for Hadassah, including Alaska. When I was Regional President, I travelled up to Alaska and the five western states, and we just came back from Hawaii.

Zalutsky: What were your reasons for going on these trips?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, in 1967 it was right before the war in ’67, and Hadassah had a leadership tour. At that time I was Regional President and they asked me to go. Of course, with my interest in Israel (and also I must admit, selfishly, the fact that I had not seen my sister for 25 years), I wanted to. The last trip we took, two years ago, my husband had never been to Israel. I felt… for some reason, I have this feeling… maybe I’m contradicting myself on the material things. I feel that as long as my husband and I are comparatively well, there are things we want to do and want to see. I thought in terms of his getting older, and perhaps having some physical problems, and instead I came back [after] a two-year illness. So I feel now that I am better, that we want to travel as much as we can while we are young enough.
 
Zalutsky: In what ways was travelling valuable to you? What kinds of things did you learn?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, again, people relationships. Also, having been to Israel in 1967 and then again in 1974, it was comparisons and studies that I have done. Being a student of history, when we did go to Israel and Spain this last time, we went primarily to places of historical significance to Judaism.

Zalutsky: You are also interested in the early history of Oregon. In fact, you have done a thesis on the early inhabitants of the New Odessa Colony in Oregon, and I wonder if you could say something about what you have discovered about the early Jews in Oregon?
BLUMENTHAL: When I got my BA, I discovered there wasn’t anything you can do with a BA, so I went on for my MA and I had to do a thesis. While I had taken some classes at the Oregon Historical Society, I came across repeated mentions of the New Odessa Colony, and I became interested. Since I still had family and a husband, I couldn’t travel extensively, although I did receive a grant to study in Roseburg, and I did spend a summer going through documentation, etc., in that area. The Jews of Odessa were quite different than the greater number of Jews in the community. But I did find that [in] Oregon – and this is something, I think, that people forget – you can’t study the Jews or any ethnic group of a state without studying the total state or the total history of the times. I think Oregon was a liberal, open society right from the beginning, which allowed for a truly communist commune, such as the Odessa was, to exist. It was the most successful of the agricultural colonies in the United States, and I think primarily of the freedom of that was in the state itself.

Zalutsky: What kinds of similarities or differences were there in the communists or communes here, and say, the Kibbutz in Israel?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, the communes here – of course, during the 19th Century, America was really the home of communes. A lot of people don’t realize that. The Kibbutz, the communal movement did not start in Israel. It started actually with Plato, probably, as far back as then, because one of the studies in working on my thesis, as I did, was to study the history of the communal movement. Plymouth, Massachusetts was actually a commune to begin with, so that I think what the Kibbutzim did was to take ideas. There were communes in Germany – the Bruderhoff movement, which was a socialist group, which the Kibbutzim borrowed from. I think the Kibbutzim remain successful because they had thought out the philosophy, and maybe even though ideologically one was orthodox and one was perhaps not, they were unified for mutual protection of the country. Whereas in an area such as Portland, they didn’t have to worry about safety – the actual physical safety – of the settlers. But there were many similarities between the Kibbutzim and the movements in America in the 19th century.

Zalutsky: I read your thesis and I recall that the commune here in Oregon was rather short-lived, and I wonder if you see any reason for it?
BLUMENTHAL: When you think in terms of generations, it was short-lived, but it was the longest lived of… There was a movement that came out of Russia called Am Olam. If you read the thesis, you will remember that. Of all the Am Olam communities in the United States, of which there were anywhere, perhaps, from eight to 15, the Oregon colony lasted the longest. So that if you consider from 1882 to 1887, they were a viable, working group of people in comparison to some of the others that fell apart after a year or two. It had lessons to teach that others might have learned from.

Zalutsky: What did you discover or uncover about that group, particularly, that you remember?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I remember it very well. In fact, I kind of felt that I lived with them and breathed with them, particularly during the time that I spent in Roseburg. I had a grant from the Jewish Welfare Federation and also the Oregon Historical Society. I think that they were a group of very idealistic young men, primarily. There were some women involved in the group and those that I was able to trace were people of high intellect. People that – one of the reasons studying Odessa was difficult was because none of them remained in the area. They all went either to San Francisco or to New York, and of the group that I was able to trace there were doctors, dentists, chemists, people – in fact, that was one of the reason, perhaps, for the break up of the colony. That they were isolated intellectually from not only the Jewish community, which they really didn’t care that much about, but they were isolated from an educational or intellectual community. Most of them had been university students in Russia and had the highly idealistic motives. Then coming to a very isolated part of the country, I think that they lacked – one reason for the break up and for the return, particularly to New York, was seeking further education. Some of them were very involved later on at the beginning of social welfare programs in New York City.

Zalutsky: You mentioned that none of them remained in Oregon.
BLUMENTHAL: That’s right.

Zalutsky: And they all returned to the East?
BLUMENTHAL:  To my knowledge. Some of them returned first to San Francisco and stayed there for about a year, and then eventually went east. The only family that I know of that had any connection with the colony at all was the Swett family, and actually Mr. Swett was not a member of the commune. He did belong to Am Olam, and things which I quote in my thesis where he was the treasurer of the group when they came from Odessa. But after arriving in Portland, now there’s a question as to whether he actually went to the site of the New Odessa or not. But he did have two children by that time, and he felt that taking them into really truly wilderness area, going with a wife and two small children was not the best thing to do, and therefore he left the movement. So to my knowledge this is the only person in the area (or the descendants of Mr. Swett) that had any connection with the colony at all.
 
Zalutsky: He was actually able to fulfill one of his expectations and that was farming. Is that right?
BLUMENTHAL: Yes, he had a farm in an area that is now pretty much in the city, but he farmed for many years. I think he remained a farmer as long as he was able to. Of course, then one of his sons is a lawyer, or his grandsons, one is a lawyer and one is a doctor now. I think his son was active in establishing the B’nai B’rith and other Jewish groups within the city of Portland.

Zalutsky: Were there any other families that you were able to trace who were directly related in any way to these early pioneers?
BLUMENTHAL: I did trace several of them. In New York City, I traced the Beyerman family, the Rosenberg family. The last I heard was that the grandson of the Rosenberg who had been on the commune was the public welfare commissioner in Chicago. The Horowitz family – when the woman who settled in Oregon left, she was a dentist, but she went back east and became a dentist. So I was able to trace her. Out of about – at one time the population of the commune was up to about 95. The stable population was around 40. I was able to trace about 10 families.

Zalutsky: Were you ever in the military?
BLUMENTHAL: Yes, I was.

Zalutsky: How did you get involved?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, as I say, I had been interested in psychiatry. I had been working at the Cook County Mental Hospital. My sister was very Zionist. She could hardly wait to get to Israel, and I leaned towards what was happening in Germany. My brother was too young to go into the service and I felt very strongly that the United States was going to have to intervene, which of course, they did. I wanted to do my part, plus the fact that I had been approached because I was interested in psychiatry and had been doing some psychiatric testing. I was told that if I went into the service, I would be sent to St. Elizabeth Hospital in Washington. Being typical service, I never got there, but I was in Washington. I was at the Bethesda Naval Hospital.

Zalutsky: What year were you inducted? What rank did you hold?
BLUMENTHAL:  I went into the service, I believe at the end of 1942, and I went out as a pharmacist’s mate first class.

Zalutsky: What places were you stationed?
BLUMENTHAL: I was, of course, at boot camp first at Hunter College, where, by the way, Sylvia Nemer Davidson was at the same time, although I didn’t know her. We worked on the newspaper there together. Then I went to St. Albin Hospital for pharmacist mate hospital training. Then I went to the Bethesda Naval Hospital in Washington, DC and finally up to Seattle at Pier 91.

Zalutsky: Which places stand out and why?
BLUMENTHAL: Bethesda stands out primarily because it was just the beginning of the medical center there. It was a naval medical center. I was there on a very interesting program. There were eight of us who had been taken from all over the country who had had some previous hospital experience, and we were given courses in hospital administration. Then, because there was some opposition by non-military, because they were afraid that we would be taking civilian situations, the program kind of fell apart and I went to x-ray school. I took an x-ray course. It was primarily for men going overseas. I was the only woman in that class.

Zalutsky: Did you experience any prejudice as a woman or a Jew?
BLUMENTHAL: Bethesda Hospital at that time was a very prejudiced place against both blacks and Jews, and it was only after a thorough FBI investigation that I was sent to Bethesda. Of course, this was true of any personnel because the President was a frequent visitor, a frequent patient. I became good friends, by the way, with Eleanor Roosevelt at that time. So that I believe, out of the entire staff of the Bethesda, when I was there I was the only Jewish, non-commissioned officer. I think there were perhaps two doctors. During the high holy days, I remember there were not enough people to conduct the service at the hospital. There was definitely prejudice against Jews in the Navy at that time.

Zalutsky: How was it manifested?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, not directly. But first of all by the fact that not that many [Jewish] people were in positions of authority or command. Also, the fact that even though I was not an officer, the fact that there were very few enlisted personnel at the Bethesda Naval Hospital, because it was headquarters for the medical corps of the hospital. So that I don’t think there was ever any individual discrimination towards me, but there was an overall discrimination in the Navy.

Zalutsky: You mentioned Eleanor Roosevelt. What was the basis of your friendship? 
BLUMENTHAL: That started because Franklin Delano Roosevelt was a frequent patient at the hospital. Eleanor Roosevelt, as well as Helen Keller, by the way, who I knew personally, used to visit the hospital. Helen Keller would particularly talk to the boys who were either blind or deaf, this type of thing, and tried to give them encouragement. Eleanor Roosevelt, it’s kind of interesting. One day I was going to return a book to the library and there was a guard at the door. He said I wasn’t allowed to enter, and I said, ‘well, why not?’ and so forth and I began to argue with him. He was a secret service man and they had cordoned off the corridor. Eleanor Roosevelt came out and wanted to know what the problem was and we became friends. Even the days when she came to Portland, for the United Nations, we always had dinner together. I felt that she was a tremendous person, and it was a privilege to know her.

Zalutsky: Could you recount some military experiences that stand out in your mind?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, some of the jobs in the Navy – the fact that I never did do what I had been taken into [to] do. The fact that even when I was sent to Seattle, I had special orders that I was going to work for a doctor in an x-ray lab. It was only by mistake, because they didn’t know where to send me when I got to Seattle, that I was sent to Pier 91 instead of the headquarters. In just the two weeks that I was there, of course, I met my husband, whereas if my orders had not been mistaken I probably would not have met him. We literally met in the dark rooms, in the x-ray dark rooms. So that stands out. 

I think the fact that when I eventually got settled, I was in charge of an x-ray unit right at the end of Pier 91. So that the men who came directly off the ships, the first contact with civilian or with any personnel here in this country – the ships would dock at the end of 91 – and we would be the first people, because we took chest x-rays. So I saw many men who were injured, men who had acquired tuberculosis through close contact during the war, on ships and this type of thing. Also, going back at St. Albins Hospital, when I was at St. Albins in the beginning, it was the burn center. At that time the fighting in the Atlantic was very heavy, and so that we had many burn cases. I remember these things very vividly.

Zalutsky: No doubt you must have acquired some feelings about the people whom these men were fighting, and what were they? What were some of those feelings? Do you recall?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I think being a Jew – and it was one of the reasons why I went in – I think my feelings towards the Germans was extremely strong. Growing up in Milwaukee, which was a German city, there were a lot of Germans who I had come in contact with. My brother inadvertently at the age of 8 had joined the American Bund, until my father found out about it, because he thought it was just another Boy Scout group. I had strong feelings against the Germans. Then, of course, later on, after I had met my husband who had been in the Pacific for three years in the Marines, I had and I still have very strong feelings about the Japanese. In fact, we were just in Hawaii and I refused to visit Pearl Harbor, because most of the visitors to Pearl Harbor are Japanese, and I admit that I still harbor a certain resentment towards them.
 
Zalutsky: How important was religion to you as a child?
BLUMENTHAL: Extremely.

Zalutsky: Did it make you feel different from other children?
BLUMENTHAL: Not really. When I was extremely young, my mother doesn’t believe that I remember this, but she used to keep us home the day after Christmas [and] the day after Easter, because she remembers as a child in Poland how the children would be beaten because they crucified Christ. I can remember her keeping us home and in the house the day after Easter. Then we moved into a neighborhood where there were many more Jewish people. Most of my friends were Jewish, the contacts were Jewish, so that I had a rather highly motivated Jewish life.

Zalutsky: How important is religion to you now?
BLUMENTHAL: I consider myself an extremely religious person. I don’t mean that in the sense that I observe every ritual. We belong to a congregation, but I have been ill several times over the years in which I faced the possibility of death, and I think when you do that, you have to evolve some kind of an acceptance. I think that religion is extremely important in teaching you how to live and also teaching you how to face death.

Zalutsky: You mentioned that you are a member of the Reform congregation – were you affiliated with that as a child?
BLUMENTHAL: No. We were members of a Conservative congregation and my grandfather was a member of a very Orthodox congregation.

Zalutsky: Did you have some reasons for changing later on?
BLUMENTHAL: We went to the Reform temple because at that time, the time we joined, my daughter was ready for religious school and at that time, we felt that the religious school at Temple Beth Israel was the best in the city.

Zalutsky: What changes have you seen in Portland’s Jewish community?
BLUMENTHAL:  When I first came to Portland, as I mentioned before, there really were not that many Jewish organizations – the B’nai B’rith, The Jewish Council of Women. But being Zionist orientated, I became interested in Hadassah. I think for a long time Hadassah was really the only organization that was doing any education within the community. The congregations, the Federation, Council – they were not the ones who were holding the study groups and bringing in the speakers and this kind of thing. Of course, that’s where I became originally interested. I think now the community has become pretty – what should I say? – orientated to the Jewish professional. I happen to object to that. I think values have changed as they have in everything else. The congregations, of course, and rightfully so, are doing much of the education. I think that is where a lot of it belongs. But I am not sure that I approve of the community that is considered represented by the Jewish professionals. How are these Jewish professionals functioning? Well, I think, I don’t want to single any of them out, but I mean people that are head of social service agencies, federations… When I have been in group meetings and when they [Jewish professionals] are turned to as the representatives of the Jewish community, whereas there may be a rabbi sitting in the room, or there may be somebody who is really involved in the Jewish community beyond the fundraising aspects. This is what I object to.

Zalutsky: What of the changes seem especially good?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, in one hand, of course, I think the freedoms that we have. I am sure that there is a certain amount of antisemitism. There is always latent antisemitism. But I think the general involvement of Jews within the general community is good, and this is important. We are much more involved in the general community, both organizationally and individually. While I think this is good on one hand, I hope that it doesn’t go too far in the other direction that we begin to lose our identity as Jews.

Zalutsky: What changes seem especially bad? You mentioned the emphasis – the professional persons involved in Jewish organizations. 
BLUMENTHAL:  I think the professional involvement is all right, but what I object to is the professional [class] being the so-called leaders of the Jewish community. Well, I think we are going through another change right now. That is where we have the young women who are more professionally-orientated themselves and are not becoming involved either in their congregations or Jewish organizations. They are more working or going to school, and they therefore do not have that much time to give to volunteer organizations and become involved in the community.

Zalutsky: How do you feel about that? That’s probably related to the freedom of women in general?
BLUMENTHAL:  Yes, the freedom of women in general. I am at the stage of life where I have certain things that I will do voluntarily. But as I mentioned, I am also looking for paid work, because I think that the volunteer in the community is kind of looked down at, at this point. The volunteers become so-called slave labor, and they are not respected because of women’s lib and the greater freedom that women have today. They have the desire to go to work. On the part of young and middle aged women that the volunteer organization is losing its strength. I think there still is a great place for volunteers within the community. You can’t afford to pay for everything that organizations do.

Zalutsky: Perhaps the community would be the one to suffer. That’s where the change may not be so good.
BLUMENTHAL: I think this is true. I think organizations, the organizations that still maintain an interest in and involved in, are going through a great analysis of their membership and the fact that younger women are occupied with other things rather than a volunteer organization.

Zalutsky: How strongly do you identify with the Jewish community now?
BLUMENTHAL:  Oh, I think extremely strong. The last couple of years I have been kind of in semi-retirement, but now that I am getting back into it, I think I am involved, you know. I think I certainly identify with the Jewish community.

Zalutsky: I think you have already dealt with this question a bit, maybe you would like to elaborate a little bit more on it. How has your Jewish background effected your positions and outlook that you have taken during your life?
BLUMENTHAL: It’s hard to say. I’ve often said, for instance, that I don’t know what came first… The fact that I’m Jewish – to me, Judaism is a very questioning religion. It allows you to question. You don’t have a creed, you don’t have dogma, so it allows you to question it. Now, whether I would be a questioning sort of a person, whether I was Jewish or not, I do not know. But certainly because I am Jewish and I have been allowed this freedom of thought, I am the type of person who still, even at my age, will question and look and seek for answers.

Zalutsky: So do you see a relationship, perhaps, between being Jewish and an intellectual approach to life?
BLUMENTHAL: I think this is one of the reasons why we do have so many Jewish intellectuals, because Judaism has always allowed for that type of questioning. 

Zalutsky: What do you perceive as some of the major contributions of the Jewish people in this community?
BLUMENTHAL:  I think the Jewish community was always – I won’t say always – the Jewish community within the last few years was active in the Civil Rights Movement. It became involved very early. I think some of our congregations became very active early on in the anti-Vietnam War movement. Certainly one of the rabbis, particularly, was extremely outspoken in this respect. Again, going back to something I said a lot earlier, the climate in Oregon (and I’m not talking about the rain), but the intellectual climate in Oregon allows for the fact that we had the first Jewish governor in the United States. Allows for the fact that the first foreign minister [ambassador]- the first Jewish foreign minister – was a man by the name of Hirsch, who was foreign minister to Turkey. The first Jewish foreign minister came from Oregon. We have had Jewish senators, that we have a Jewish mayor, a young Jewish mayor at the present time. I think that the climate is often affected by the type of Jewish community that we have.

Zalutsky: Are there some spiritual characteristics common to Jewish people in particular?
BLUMENTHAL: No, I don’t think that every Jew is the same. I think – I don’t classify every Jews as the same, anymore than I do any black. I think we are each individuals and we each have spiritual values. I would like to think that we all had certain spiritual values. I think I am very realistic, for instance, in my attitude towards the State of Israel. I don’t think that Jews are any different than anybody else. There are Jews that have certain spiritual values and Jews that do not.

Zalutsky: Looking back over your life and experiences, what difference has it made that you are a Jew living in Oregon?
BLUMENTHAL:  That’s one of those “if” questions, because you don’t know what it would have been like if you lived someplace else, and I think that’s almost impossible to answer.

Zalutsky: To what extent have you reached the goals you once set?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I don’t believe we always reach all of our goals. As a young woman, I wanted to be a doctor, which I never reached. I have had my children. I’m very proud of my children, even though sometimes I question what they do. I think they are good men and women. I have had a comparatively happy relationship with my husband. I have been married almost 32 years. Economically, while we are not wealthy, that’s not one of my goals in life.

Zalutsky: What difficulties do you perceive for your children?
BLUMENTHAL: I think with two of them not having married Jews, I think there is going to be problems. I don’t really know if my son and daughter-in-law plan to have children. They are both career people. But I can see with my two grandchildren that there are already problems coming up. Economically they will have to make their way, which I don’t know if it’s a problem or not. I think my youngest son, who elected not to go to college, is working in a building trade. He is having problems of identification, but I think he is still young enough that it is going to have to be worked out.

Zalutsky: In what ways is their growing up different from yours?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I grew up in a family where aunts, uncles, and cousins, etc., were around. My children have not. There are cousins, but none of them [live] here, and I think – I notice when they do get together that there is a very strong family feeling, which the children were really never able to express. I think this is the greatest significance. I’m not sure that under the circumstances, or knowing now what I did, that I would want to be this isolated from family contacts.

Zalutsky: Are things generally getting better or worse?
BLUMENTHAL:  That’s another question. Better than what? You know, ‘How often do you beat your wife?’ I think people have more decisions to make. They have more alternatives. They have more life styles. Sometimes it is easier to follow something, you know, when the rule is laid out and you walk down the straight path, than when there is ways that you can go off. I think people are going to have to learn to make decisions based on some kind of intellectual reasoning.

Zalutsky: What makes life worthwhile for you?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, family – children, grandchildren, husband, materialism – my greatest possessions are my books. I think probably the greatest, beyond personal relationships, I mean beyond children and husband, etc., – this type of thing. I often wonder what I would do if I couldn’t read, if I lost my eyesight, because I am a tremendous reader.

Zalutsky: Are there things you have done that you would have liked to have done differently?
BLUMENTHAL:  I think when I got out of the service I would… Again, we are thinking of today’s terms. In those days, women just helped their husbands through school or stayed home and had children. Looking back on it, I can say now that I wish I had taken advantage of the GI Bill and had gone back to school then and finished. I think that probably that would have been the greatest thing I would have done significantly different.

Zalutsky: What have you learned through personal experience that makes life a little
BLUMENTHAL: I hate to dwell on this subject of illness, but the last few years were very difficult and I think I have learned to accept people for what they are, even more than I did before. I have learned to accept… Of course, I have always felt that there were some things you could fight against, some things you can’t. I have had to conserve my energy and therefore I have learned to place things in perspective, so that not only as far as energy is concerned, but I’m not going to worry about things I can’t do anything about. But things that I can do something about, instead of worrying, I try to do something about them.

Zalutsky: Has a sense of humor been helpful in any way for you in your personal life?
BLUMENTHAL:  I think a sense of humor is about the only thing that carries you through. I think that’s one of the great gifts of Judaism, is to have a sense of humor. To be able to laugh at yourself, and then go on from there to correct that mistake, I think is of tremendous value. I do think I have a rather odd sense of humor, maybe, but there again that’s kind of a family characteristic.

Zalutsky: How about your goals for the future?
BLUMENTHAL:  As I mentioned, I would either like to work with Oregon history. I am a research associate at the Oregon Historical Society. I would hope that I can do some work in that area or get a grant. I hope that my husband and I can travel more extensively than we have been able to do in the last [few] years. I want to keep busy and I know my husband wants to keep busy as long as we are able to. We don’t believe in retirement and doing nothing.

Zalutsky: From where do you derive your energy?
BLUMENTHAL: I don’t have too much, but I think I derive my energy… Really, anger can spur me on faster than anything else. Anger or a sense of injustice. I can get going over those two things more than anything else.

Zalutsky: Thank you.