Harriet Goodman Bodner

Tarlow: I am going to ask you your birthdate and where you were born.
BODNER: I was born in Portland, Oregon on June 17, 1920, during a Shriner’s convention (which is part of my heritage).

Tarlow: Obviously you were not at the parade.
BODNER: Obviously. I missed that parade [laughs].  I just recall being told that I was born during the Shriner’s convention. Perhaps it was a national convention. I don’t know at this point.

Tarlow: And you were born at Wilcox Memorial?
BODNER: No, I was born in a small hospital on NW 18th. George was born there also, a year earlier. It eventually became the headquarters for the Arts and Crafts Society before they moved out.

Tarlow: Oh, I remember that building; it was a red, brick building.
BODNER: I don’t know that, but I do know that I took a class there along the way. It was either ceramics or woodcarving. It was in the infirmary.

Tarlow: So tell me a little bit about your parents.
BODNER: My mother was Helen Goodman, then Hoeflich, then back to Goodman again. My father was Victor Hoeflich and they divorced when I was five years old. That was pretty unusual in the 1920s.

Tarlow: And your mother remained in Portland with you.
BODNER: Yes. She died, when I was 17 years old of tuberculosis.

Tarlow: And what happened with your father?
BODNER: My father ended up in New York City to further his career. He was first a musician and from there he became a manufacturer of party favors. He became quite renowned in New York City. The party favors started when, as a musician at the Multnomah Hotel (where he was leading what he called an orchestra), he needed some leis for a Hawaiian weekend. He was an extremely creative man and figured out how to go into the basement and use his skill on the sewing machine to sew his own leis. From there, his career took off and he became quite a renowned manufacturer of party favors. I have stacks of memorabilia to testify to that.

Tarlow: How did your mother come to be in Portland?
BODNER: My mother was born in Chehalis, [Washington]. The Goodman family was there. Grandpa Goodman lived in Chehalis. He was born in Europe. 

Tarlow: Where in Europe was he born?
BODNER: He was born in Latvia.

Tarlow: And then he came to Chehalis.
BODNER:       Yes, I don’t know any of the details. But that was where my mother was born. Then the family moved to Portland.   I don’t know the exact details. It could be documented in the book that my cousin Shirley Fishel wrote. 

Tarlow: He came here to be in business, probably?
BODNER: He was an optometrist.  His name was Charles W. Goodman.

Tarlow: And how about your father? How did he get to Portland?
BODNER: My father was born in Philadelphia. His parents moved to Portland for a short period of time. I know my father went to Lincoln High School in 1914. I know that because it is documented in the information that we have from Belle Bloom Gevurtz. She kept a diary that ended up in the museum, before the exhibit that we had last summer on the beach [Ocean Views; Vacations at the Oregon Coast – 2007]. A copy of her diary ended up in the Jewish museum and my father, as well as the Goodman family, are mentioned in that diary. My father was a high school student at that time and my mother was 15 years old. They had barely met at that point.

Tarlow: And they obviously fell in love and got married.  And where did they live here in Portland?
BODNER: They lived in many places. As I say, he and my mother were divorced when I was about five years old. Their early years included a rental on SE Yamhill. There were some rentals near South Portland, and the last place that we all lived, when I was a child, was NW Pettygrove, at about 14th.

Tarlow: And who lived in your household besides you?
BODNER: Well, my household changed quite a bit over the decades. You might say it was “erratic” because of my father having departed.  Alan Hoeflich Goodman (then Hoeflich again) was my brother. He was five years my junior. When my father departed and the divorce took place, we lived on Lovejoy Street between 21st an 22nd. That was the place that I lived the longest as a child and early teenager. In that household were the two grandparents Goodman, Dora and Charles, [and] two uncles who were studying to be doctors. The younger was Louis and his older brother Morton Goodman.

Tarlow: And how are they related to you?
BODNER: Morton and Louis were my mother’s brothers.

Tarlow: And you all lived in one house.
BODNER: We all lived in one house together on Lovejoy Street and I went to Couch School and Lincoln High.

Tarlow: Did you have a Jewish education during that time as well?
BODNER: Yes. Grandma Goodman was very Orthodox. The candles were lit on Friday nights. Grandpa Goodman was probably not interested in religion, although I’m sure he was interested in Judaism. He was somewhat of a scholar. The story I always tell is that Grandma lit the candles on Friday night and Grandpa blew them out [laughter]. My memories of that time, attending Ahavai Shalom Sunday School and taking the street car from 21st and Lovejoy to the Park Blocks where the school was. It had its own building there. I did have a religious education. One year Uncle Mort was teaching at Temple [Beth Israel], so that year I went to Sunday school at Temple.

Tarlow: And wasn’t that handier from where you lived too?
BODNER: [laughs] Wherever Temple was located at that time. I think it was on Main Street.

Tarlow: When you were in grade school, did you have Jewish friends? Were there a lot of Jewish kids?
BODNER: Oh yes, there were. There was a pocket of Jewish people even on our block – on Lovejoy – and also in the neighborhood. Then 23rd Avenue was quite residential. There were a number of Jewish people who lived near 23rd and went to Couch School. I would have to recall about the people who lived up in Portland Heights.

Tarlow: What do you remember about Couch School?
BODNER: I remember quite a bit. It even comes up in my dreams [laughs]. It was a very fine school. Miss Orthchild taught us art. Probably my interest in art started with Miss Orthchild. Then there was Miss Applegate. One of the subjects was nature study. I have since figured out that she was probably from the Applegate pioneer family. That is a pretty unique name. I haven’t researched it, but I suspect. I still know the names of most of the birds because of Miss Applegate. That is one of our hobbies (George’s and mine) – amateur bird watching. 

Tarlow: From Couch School, where did you go to high school?
BODNER: I went to Lincoln High School.

Tarlow: And was Couch up until the eighth grade?
BODNER: Yes, it was. At that time I was thirteen, and we moved from Lovejoy Street two or three years after I started high school. Grandma Goodman died while we were living on Lovejoy Street. She was struck by a car as she crossed the street on 21st and Lovejoy. Grandpa Goodman had been previously married (to a lady whose name I don’t recall) and she had died in a horse and buggy accident. There were two children from that marriage. Their names were Sam Goodman and Lillian Goodman Heldfond.

Tarlow: So to recap: you moved while you were still in high school.  Did your uncles move with you?
BODNER: The uncles had already finished medical school and done their internships. They were doing their residencies. I went through all of that with them. Uncle Mort Goodman was already back in Portland, and since the grandparents had died, the family then consisted of my mother Helen, my brother Alan, and Mort Goodman. My mother had tuberculosis. She had it for quite a few years. I think she was developing it about the time of the divorce. From Lovejoy Street, the four of us moved to Briar Place, which is out Barbur Blvd. We were renting a house there. Mort Goodman was starting his medical practice. He was an internist.

Tarlow: How did you get to high school from there?
BODNER: Briar Place is right near Barbur Blvd and there was a bus. Part of the time I was able to drive the family car.

Tarlow: Hmm, pretty special.
BODNER: Well, that was the way it was “in the old days” [laughs].

Tarlow: How did you spend your free time when you were in high school?
BODNER: Oh, that is something I haven’t thought about in a long time. I was starting to develop some of my later interests. I thought I should try all of the athletic endeavors that were offered. I was trying to be a golfer (but not very good). And I was a bicycler and I hiked. I loved the hiking. On Sundays, the thing to do in families was to say, “Let’s go for a ride and have a picnic.” That is what we often did on Sundays. We would “go for a ride.” That meant either going out towards St. John’s or Linnton or to Mt. Hood. That was our favorite, Mt. Hood. Then I was part of the Sub-Deb Club.

Tarlow: Oh, tell me about that. Was that at Lincoln or at the Jewish Community Center?
BODNER: In my research down at the Jewish Museum, it appears that eventually those high school clubs divided up according to whether you lived on the west side or the east side. But in those days, we had members from all parts of town in the Sub-Deb group. And it was pretty important to us.

Tarlow: Where did you meet?
BODNER: As I recall, we met at our different homes. We put on tea parties at our homes. Maybe we had some occasional events at the Jewish Community Center on 13th. 

Tarlow: Who were some of the people in that group with you?
BODNER: Well! I hadn’t thought about that for a while. I remember Dorothy Roth Reiter. I remember Marsha Bell Swire Weinsoft. I would have to think to come up with some of the other names.

Tarlow: We can come back to that.  After high school what was on your “to do” list?
BODNER: All right. Then after high school I had the opportunity to attend Reed College. I was in a program that included classes at Reed College and the Portland Art Museum. I did that for two years.

Tarlow: Let’s just say where Reed College is so that we’ll have that on the tape.
BODNER: Reed College is in Southeast Portland on Woodstock between 34th and 39th.

Tarlow: Did you live on campus?
BODNER: No, I was living at home. I was a “day dodger.” That was the terminology.  My mother had passed away while we lived on Briar Place, from tuberculosis.  

Tarlow: You were very young.
BODNER: I was. I’ve had a rather erratic life; let’s put it that way. So by that time I was living in two different households with my aunts and uncles. We moved from Briar Place to Eastmoreland, to 32nd and Claiborne. That’s when I was living with my brother, with Mort Goodman, and someone you must have known well, Arthur Tarlow [the interviewer’s father-in-law]. I think I told you about that.

Tarlow: You did. And actually, I did not know him at all, but I have heard wonderful stories about him.
BODNER: He was quite a wonderful man. And after that, the aunt and cousins came to Portland from Sand Point, Idaho. That was the Foster family. I lived with them in Eastmoreland. My father all this time, by the way, was in New York City, and I had essentially no connection with him for twenty-five years. I am trying to remember. I think I went to Reed College from Eastmoreland, from those two homes. Then, while we were in the second home, Uncle Mort, who was still part of the family as an unmarried person, eloped with Edith Schnitzer. Have you heard about that?  They eloped and suddenly one more person was out of the household. That was quite a big event. By then he had started his practice as an internist in Portland. The main people in the family were then Aunt Ophelia Foster and her three daughters. And I can’t remember when Uncle Jacob passed away. It must have been before they came to Portland.

Tarlow: And how was Ophelia related to you?
BODNER: Ophelia was another sister of Mort, Lou, and my mother Helen. They moved to Portland from Sand Point, ID with her three daughters who are now Betty Druck, Marge Saltzman, and Shirley Fishel, who passed away. That household included we four girls and Margery Foster Saltzman and Betty Foster Druck, my contemporaries. So it was a fun household. While I was still going to Reed College, Aunt Ophelia moved her brood to Arlington Heights and I was a part of the move. With three young ladies very much in the same age group, it was very social. We used to have quite a lot of fun. You are not asking me these questions but they are all coming to the forefront.

Tarlow: I don’t need to ask you because you are doing such a great job. I just want to listen.
BODNER: I’ll have you here for hours.

Tarlow: That will be fine. What is going through my mind is that you were almost an only child and then suddenly you had three sisters and a whole new life.
BODNER: When the Fosters lived in Sand Point, ID and my mother was suffering from tuberculosis, the family was extremely close. The Foster family came to Portland every summer and we all spent the summer in Seaside, in the Goodman Cottages. There were three cottages in Seaside. We were very close even then. And I was invited on several occasions to visit them in Sand Point, ID. As well as cousin Harold Heldfond, who is about the same age as I, and whose family lived across the street from us at Seaside.

Tarlow: Tell me a little about Seaside.
BODNER: The Goodman family were pioneers in Seaside. Grandpa Goodman and family pitched a tent there. I can remember going there every summer forever. We have wonderful pictures to show for it.

Tarlow: When did they build their houses?
BODNER: They built the houses in the 20s. 

Tarlow: So you were pretty little when they built the houses?
BODNER: Yes. The exhibit we did at the Jewish Museum that emphasized Seaside was heavy on pictures of my family, because my family had been there early.

Tarlow: Who was taking all those pictures?
BODNER: I think there must have been lots of photographers in the family. We have lots of photographs of the family at Seaside.

Tarlow: And there were lots of Jewish kids at Seaside at that time?
BODNER: Oh, yes.

Tarlow: And was there a prom that you could chase each other up and down?
BODNER: The earliest pictures I have are of my mother and her sister Ophelia from about 1914. The diary of Belle Bloom Gevurtz was written in 1914. The Goodman family is in that diary. My mother was fifteen at the time. So the family goes back to the quite early days at Seaside.

Tarlow: And do they still have houses in Seaside?
BODNER: No, Grandpa’s cottages on South Downing Street were in the possession of the two uncles after the Goodman grandparents had passed away. And about that time, they were condemned because of the outhouse. No one had put money into indoor plumbing. So the property was sold, and Aunt Lillian Goodman Heldfond and her family had their own house directly across the street. I think they retained that house much longer than the Goodman family retained our cottages. Ours were cottages, there’s was a full-blown house.

Tarlow: So let’s go back to the Portland Art Museum and Reed College. You were getting an education.
BODNER: Yes. I went to Reed for two years and art appeared to be my main interest. I took academic subjects, but I was in a program that combined Reed College and the Portland Art Museum. After two years I had a wonderful opportunity. One of the uncles, Louis Goodman, had completed his studies at Johns Hopkins University, and he and his wife Helen Ricen Goodman were living in New Haven, Connecticut. He was on the staff of the medical school of Yale University. So, for my third year of academic endeavor, I was invited to come and live with Uncle Lou and his wife Helen and go to art school at Yale University. I was 20 or 21 at the time. I spent nine months there in the School of Fine Arts at Yale. My interest was in sculpture. I wanted to be a sculptor. How far should I go here?

Tarlow: I want to know! [laughs]
BODNER: So, I went to New Haven in September. In July of that year, when I was already planning to go, I met a young man here in Portland named George Bodner. I met him at a party at the home of the Light family. The parents of Lois Light [inaudible] and Dorothy Light Packouz. It was a young-adult party. Actually, I was the wallflower at that party, because I was recovering from Mono. But a nice young man came up and introduced himself to me and his name was George Bodner.

Tarlow: Was that the first time your paths had crossed?
BODNER: I think so. Possibly our paths had crossed before, because our ages are one year apart and he lived with his family on NW Thurman and 23rd while I was living on NW Lovejoy. So, who knows whether we had ever met before.

Tarlow: So you met George and then you went away to Yale?
BODNER: One year away was enough because George Bodner was in Portland, Oregon and how often could we go across the country to see each other?  Zero times.

Tarlow: But you wrote letters, I am sure.
BODNER: We wrote letters.

Tarlow: How about the telephone?
BODNER: We spoke, I am sure, but the letters are the things that stay with, me and of course I have them all.  I save everything. I do have those letters. I was due to come back from New Haven in May or June, and the question came up as to how I was to come back. Would I take the train as I had when I went to New Haven?  Well, I had the opportunity for a ride from the brother of Mort Goodman’s young wife, Edith Schnitzer. Her brother was Harold Schnitzer, attending MIT. We were both heading back to Portland at the same time. Harold and I drove across the country together. He would drive 300 miles and I would drive 300 miles. It took us five days.

Tarlow: What a time you must have had.
BODNER: It was fun. He was two years younger than I, so I didn’t have “aspirations” [laughter]. We drove by way of Sand Point, Idaho to visit the Foster family. It was about that time we learned somehow that Uncle Mort’s good friend had passed away unexpectedly, and that was Arthur Tarlow.

Tarlow: Yes, he had a heart attack.
BODNER: That is one of my memories of that time of my life. When I returned to Portland, that was the end of my schooling, because there was George Bodner and we were quite serious about each other. We got married three years later. That is what you did in those days, you got to know people. He was a beginning dental student with no money. When we finally got married I think I had $200. That was three years later.

Tarlow: Did you work at that time?
BODNER: Yes I did. Let me think about this. I was trying to develop a career. I had training with a gentleman who was an advertising…

Tarlow: And George Bodner is going to dental school and you are?
BODNER: And I was living with the Foster family when I returned from Yale.

Tarlow: Were the three girls still home?
BODNER: Yes.

Tarlow: No wonder you went there!
BODNER: I have to remember the chronology, but it was quite a household with their three girls and Harriet. I was trying to be an advertising artist. That was during World War II. My aspiration was to go to work in a large advertising department. That was at Meier & Frank.  Advertising in those days was to be able to make drawings of people in clothing to be used in the newspapers.

Tarlow: And Meier & Frank was the large department store.
BODNER: Yes, and because it was war time (I did have a very nice portfolio; in fact I believe I have donated that to the Jewish Museum – my ink drawings in black and white), there was no job in the advertising department right away. So I went to work in the toy department. Also I worked in the phonograph record department where we were selling 78 rpm records. I still have a few of those – does the museum want them?

Tarlow: Do you have a machine to play them?
BODNER: We do, at the beach house.

Tarlow: Then you should save them. Have a dance party!
BODNER: Well, we’ll see. If my children don’t want them, they go to the Jewish Museum.

Tarlow: That’s a good thing. So it was during war time, you say. When did you really know about the war and what was going on in Europe?  Particularly with Jews.
BODNER: During my time at Reed College, and also my time in New Haven, we were very concerned about the demonstrations in the United States. I can’t immediately think of the names of the people who were the rabble-rousers, but that was going on in those days.

Tarlow: Did you know people who were serving in the military at that time?
BODNER: I’m trying to recall who the first ones were. I am certain I did, but I would have to sort that out in my mind.

Tarlow: All right. You were working at Meier & Frank and George was in school. You dated, obviously.
BODNER: I dated George and a few other men then, because he was so conscientious and he said that since he had zero money (his father was dying at the time). So I did date a few other young men.

Tarlow: When did you marry him?
BODNER: We married in 1943. November 7, two days after he graduated from dental school, because then he could foresee a career. You had to have a career in those days to be able to support a wife and a family.

Tarlow: Where were you married?
BODNER: We were married in the home of Mort and Edith Goodman up on Davenport Street.  

Tarlow: Tell me a little bit about your wedding.
BODNER: I had no parents, of course, to look over my wedding. My father was in the east and I still didn’t really know him. So my wedding was planned by my two aunts and my uncle. That was Mort Goodman, Edith Schnitzer Goodman, and Ophelia Goodman Foster.  I borrowed a gown from George’s cousin who was living temporarily in Portland from New York. I wore her white wedding gown. I believe Rabbi Hausman presided. It was very simple. The immediate family was at the wedding. We couldn’t afford a real photographer, but I do have three or four so-so photographs. We had a very nice afternoon reception where about 80 people attended.

Tarlow: Were they all family?
BODNER: Family and friends.

Tarlow: And where did you live after that?
BODNER: Well, George was immediately inducted into the Navy. We lived first in Bremerton, Washington and then in San Mateo, California, where George was stationed. Our son Jack was born in San Mateo. When he was a small baby, George was sent overseas to China. Jack was born in May. George went overseas in August after the war was declared officially over. But things did not end abruptly as far as the armed services. So even thought the war was officially over, George was transferred from San Bruno, California to Shanghai and then to Tzing Tao to head a dental clinic there.

Tarlow: Did you go there at all?
BODNER: No, I was in Portland. Oh, he went from Portland to Hawaii to China. That was in the fall. Jack had been born May 12, of 1944. Then I came to Portland and lived with the Foster family when he was sent to China. I lived with them and my small baby.

Tarlow: That added a new dimension to that household. 
BODNER: Yes. By then they were living on NW Thurman Street. Son Jack and I lived with the Foster family until George returned from China, which was about March or April, and by then I had found a house to rent on SE Grant Street. So, as you can see, I have lived in every part of Portland.

Tarlow: But that was a house that was your first home that was really yours.
BODNER: We were renting a house.

Tarlow: But a household that you were in charge of. That must have meant a lot to you.
BODNER: That was pretty special and of course it was very wonderful that the war was over.  We lived there until we were able to move to south Burlingame, where we bought our first home for $9000 [laughs], and that was a very nice house.

Tarlow: What year was that?
BODNER: George came home in ’44 or ’45 and we lived on SW 10th and S. Burlingame for several years. Jack Bodner was born on May 12 and daughter Helene was born two years later on May 13.

Tarlow: So you were a busy mom.
BODNER: I was a busy mom. And by then I was doing volunteer work. I have always done volunteer work. I was active in the Council of Jewish Women.

Tarlow: Did you belong to Temple by then?
BODNER: I don’t believe we joined Temple until Jack and Helene were ready to attend Sunday school. There was a little interim when I don’t think we belonged to a synagogue. They went to Sunday school all through their young lives. But Bar Mitzvahs were not quite as important in those days. So Jack did not have a Bar Mitzvah. Nor did Helene.

Tarlow: Did you keep the Sabbath when you were a mom at home?
BODNER: No, I didn’t. I came for a family that, except for Grandma Goodman, was not particularly religious. Grandpa was the one who blew out the candles and my father (whom I finally reconciled with, after about 25 years, when I was about 30) claims that in New York he belonged to the Ethical Culture movement. So I was never particularly religious. There was always a debate in my family about what was Judaism, or what constituted a Jewish family in Portland if you were not religious. The terminology that was used was that Judaism was an entity. I was interested in being Jewish, but there was no one in my family that was particularly anxious to pursue this.

Tarlow: As an adult were you able to pursue your art career?
BODNER: Yes, I was interested in sculpture. Oh, the exciting thing that happened to me was that when George and I, as young parents, moved to the Montclair neighborhood (we had just built a home there). I had taken classes off and on. I had one class in ceramics and sculpture.  Near our home in Raleigh Hill, a new private art gallery had opened its doors. It was Gallery West. I was able to find a part-time job there. I believe I had taken classes in the interim or done some art work at home.

Tarlow: So how old were your kids when you went back to work?  Were they in high school?
BODNER: I think they were. It was just a part-time job and it fit into our way of life perfectly because it was just a few blocks from where I was living. Gallery West was quite a successful art gallery. There were very few small galleries around Portland at that time. I think it was the 1950s or early 60s perhaps.  That was very satisfying, to be a part-timer there.

Tarlow: I remember you there.
BODNER: Do you?  Well, when they finally closed up – “Did I want to buy the gallery?” No, thank you!

Tarlow: That would not have been fun.  Well, you have been involved in this community for a very long time and it seems that you are connected, either by blood or friendship, to everybody.
BODNER: Well, it seems that way now. As a young child, without a father in the household and a mother who wasn’t well, I had a limited number of immediate relatives and a limited number of friends. Although I can remember in high school, my closest friends were three young ladies who were not Jewish. We really palled around together. I had other close friends from around and about. On Lovejoy Street, next door to us, there was a family named Jellinger. And Suzanne Jellinger was Jewish. She was my very close friend. I believe she ended up in Chicago. Charles Pollitz lived in the same block. So in the neighborhood of Lovejoy Street, I can remember quite a few young people.

Tarlow: How did you reconnect with your dad?
BODNER: Let’s see, that is a long story. Let me see if I can make it shorter.

Tarlow: Did he have relatives in Portland other than you?
BODNER: Not at that time. When he lived here, his parents lived here. They were New Yorkers.  He and his brother lived here with them during his high school years. Then his business was taking off. He was going from being a bandleader to an inventor of machines, and a manufacturer of paper lace to be used in his band (which was called The Victorian). He was the bandleader at the Multnomah Hotel. Before he knew it, he was inventing machines to create party favors. What was your original question?

Tarlow: The question was, how did you reconnect with him?
BODNER: He lived in New York City for 25 years with a new wife and a new daughter, Bobbi Hoeflich Rudd. She is my half-sister. He was making an effort to reconnect with his daughter, me, and my brother Alan. He did not come to Portland, but I think he was in touch with the uncles, Mort Goodman and Lou Goodman. It is a long story, but it finally came about that my father Victor Hoeflich and his wife Marian and daughter Bobbi spoke to me on the phone and said they were coming to visit in Portland. They drove across the country and we had a reunion. I didn’t know too much about him, but I became quite interested in his party-favor manufacturing. It was called American Merry-Lei and it had really taken off. He had become pretty well known and it was mentioned in the first article in the New Yorker Magazine. At that same time he was in touch with Alice Turtledove Meyer, because he was remembering all of his old friends from Lincoln High. I have to sort this out, but there was a connection there.

Tarlow: So when you met him again, did he come to your house?
BODNER: Yes, with his whole family. His New York family. It was a very dramatic thing to meet a father for the first time in 25 years. Although, before they came across the country he was communicating by mail and sending these extremely elaborate party favors. Huge cartons would arrive.

Tarlow: So here we are, in 2008, high atop this building. I know that you volunteer regularly at the Oregon Jewish Museum. Do you do any other volunteer work?
BODNER: That is my main volunteer work now. After working at Gallery West, I volunteered at the Rental Sales gallery at the Portland Art Museum and from there I went to … I am trying to recall. I think I went directly to the Jewish Museum. I have volunteered at Council. I was on the board of directors at Neighborhood House for a few years and I have always been interested in volunteer work, as opposed to spending my time… playing games, shall we say? [laughter]

Tarlow: Oh, please, Harriet.
BODNER: Playing cards and Mah Jongg. I did play cards quite a few summers at Seaside. I got that out of my system.

Tarlow: So how do you and George spend your time now?
BODNER: Well, Sharon, we have numerous interests. Of course, George was a fisherman before anything else. And we were able to acquire our own home at Cannon Beach, at Tolovana.  So at some stages of my life, I have felt that I lived in two places. We do try to go often. When we go, we go three days out of the week, so that is four days in Portland and three in Cannon Beach. We are rather held down at this point, because George is still maintaining an office. He gave up dentistry 15 year ago and he now maintains his own business office right here. We do spend a lot of time at the beach. And we have quite a few hobbies and interests. 

Tarlow: Name three [laughter].
BODNER: The beach would be one. Volunteering my services would be two, because I do volunteer my services at the Jewish Museum. That is extremely satisfying. And traveling. We like to travel.

Tarlow: So, if you were going to tell me one of the most satisfying things for you in your life, what would that be?
BODNER: I would say in the later years of my life it would be volunteering. That would be one.  Another would be, even though my life has been extremely erratic, having close family and being very proud the members of my family. Quite a few have made names for themselves.

Tarlow: I didn’t ask you if you have grandchildren.
BODNER: We have one granddaughter. That is Rachel Patricia Jasper. And one great-grandchild and that is Dylan Jasper.

Tarlow: So then, you have led a very satisfying life so far and hopefully you will have a long life ahead of you. What do you think is in store for you?
BODNER: Well, to continue as we are. George, as a successful dentist, has been extremely interested in health issues (to the point where I wonder if we have become fanatics about what we eat [laughs]). So we are both in pretty good health.  George has been very fortunate that we live here on 21st and Salmon and he is able to pursue his athletic endeavors down at the MAC club. That has been a good experience.

Tarlow: Do you go as well?
BODNER: I do. I’m not really athletic, but I do go twice a week to the cardiac wellness group. I go there not because of any ailment, but because of my age-bracket, which is now 87.

Tarlow: I must say, you do not look or act like you are in your 80s.
BODNER: That’s why I tell [laughs]. Thank you very much.

Tarlow: This has been wonderful that you have let me come into your house and listen to your stories. If you think of anything else that we might have left out, we can do this again. I know that you have lots of photographs there and I want to look through them, but I don’t know if we will do that on tape.  Although there is that one there that you took, I don’t know how many years ago, of your whole family. How many people are in that photograph?
BODNER: Well, the family reunion went on for three days and we figured there were about 80 people there. And that was just the Goodman side of the family.

Tarlow: How many years ago was that?
BODNER: That was more than ten years ago.

Tarlow: Okay, I am going to turn this off and we will talk about the photographs. But first I wanted to thank you again very much.
BODNER: Thank you, Sharon.  You know, when they first said that they wanted to interview me I said, “No way!” But here I am. That was in the early days of the program, which I am glad to see is doing so well at the museum.

Tarlow: I am too. And it would be absolutely terrible if one of our most devoted volunteers was not recorded on tape.  So here we are.

Brunner: We are talking to Harriet Bodner.
BODNER: Harriet Goodman Bodner.

Brunner: About her Goodman relations. What is today? Is it the twentieth?
Anne:  The twenty-first.

Brunner:  May 21, 2009.
BODNER:  That sounds about right.

Brunner:  We’re looking through your family pictures. I might ask you some questions that I’ve asked you before. That’s just so I can remember them.
BODNER:  That’s just fine.

Brunner:  This is the family reunion.
BODNER:  Yes, and the date of the reunion: August 1991. A three-day event in Portland, Oregon.

Brunner:  And that was for the Goodman family.
BODNER:  The descendants of Charles W. Goodman and also of Joe Goodman, and his descendants were minimal. It was just Janet Goodman Guggenheim and her husband and I believe her son was in attendance.

Brunner:  So Charles and Joseph were the brothers. [a third Portland brother was Herman]
BODNER:  Yes.

Brunner:  And Charles was your grandfather.
BODNER:  Yes.

Brunner:  The optometrist.
BODNER:  Yes.

Brunner:  That’s Charles, and that’s Charles.
BODNER:  Yes.

Brunner:  And there he is there. That’s his third wife.
BODNER:  There were only two wives. This is the one who eventually died in a car accident.
 
Brunner:  She died in the car accident.
BODNER:  Actually, she was struck by a car crossing the street.

Brunner:  And his first wife was killed in a buggy accident.
BODNER:  A horse and buggy accident.

Brunner:  They didn’t have much luck with transportation.
BODNER:  Yes. [that’s right]

Brunner:  Do you know his first wife’s name?
BODNER:  I don’t.

Brunner:  But your grandmother was Doris [Dora], so that’s the one we’re concerned with. And there’s, let me guess: Lou, Morton Rebecca, … 
BODNER:  Helen, Ophelia, and my mother’s twin was already deceased and her name was Cecelia. Rebecca and Cecelia died in childhood. They’re buried at the Ahavai Sholom Cemetery. And then their half brother and sister are Sam right here and another person who’s not in this picture is Lillian her name was Goodman but she married Sam Heldfond.

Brunner:  Another one of the names you’ve given me from the list. They all married doctors.
BODNER:  Sam Heldfond was a pharmacist.

Brunner:  And they lived here in Portland?
BODNER:  Yes, they did. And there are descendants in Portland and California in that Heldfond family. [spells].

Brunner:  And then we have Lou and Mort here. Do you remember your great grandparents’ names?
BODNER:  No. It’s written down somewhere.

Brunner:  We know they were from Shashmakish in [Latvia]
BODNER:  We can verify that with Joella Werlin [historian] or Julie Leuvrey. Julie Saltzman Leuvrey [Marge Saltzman’s daughters]. 

Brunner:  Perfect.
BODNER:  Julie married Eric from France. Eric Leuvrey. And her cousin married Randy Lovre.

Brunner:  That’s a different spelling.
BODNER:  They both married people with similar names.

Brunner:  Are they both Jewish?
BODNER:  No, the husbands were not Jewish.

Brunner:  That’s interesting, that neither were Jewish, and they both have a similar name. But not related at all.
BODNER:  Right. 

Brunner:  That’s you. Who’s that?
BODNER:  Marjorie Foster Saltzman. [granddaughter of Charles Goodman, daughter of Ophelia]

Brunner:  OK. I’ve seen her picture.
BODNER:  She’s the one who’s the lecturer for our Planned Parenthood. She’s the mother of Julie Leuvrey and Dan Saltzman, our City Commissioner.

Brunner:  I want to get back a little bit to this great picture of Lou and Mort. Now, he was the pharmacologist — Lou was the pharmacologist? [yes] And Mort was the internist? [yes]
BODNER:  Right, a medical internist. A doctor. He specialized in internal medicine. Lou had some degrees. I don’t know what they were.

Brunner:  It’s probably here in the book [Refers to the book Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics written by Lou Goodman and donated to the Oregon Jewish Museum by Harriet]. Did they both practice here in Portland? 
BODNER:  Mort Goodman practiced. Lou was a doctor, but he did not practice, he taught and did research.

Brunner:  Where did he teach?
BODNER:  He taught at Yale and in Vermont, I can’t think of the name of the school; then his book [Pharmacology Book] was so successful that he was asked to come to the University of Utah and bring his whole team with him, and they established a department there because of Uncle Lou. So he taught and he did research.

Brunner:  At the university [of Utah]. So he didn’t live in Portland when he was practicing?
BODNER:  No he lived in Portland until he became an intern. He went to high school at Lincoln. He graduated Reed College, then he went to University of Oregon Medical School, and so he did his internship at Johns Hopkins.

Brunner:  And what about Mort? [Mort was the older brother]
BODNER:  He did a similar thing but he went, I believe, to the University of Oregon and then the medical school here. And then he too went to Johns Hopkins.

Brunner:  He was the one who a year younger. That one [pointing to picture of Mort]?
BODNER:  No. Lou was a year younger.

Brunner:  So Lou followed him to Johns Hopkins?
BODNER:  Yes. Something like that. I have to reconstruct that with Mort’s son who is Dr. Thomas Goodman in Portland.

Brunner:  Oh, his son is practicing here in Portland.
BODNER:  He’s not practicing here. He’s retired. He [Mort] has two doctor sons who live in Portland who are retired.

Brunner:  Thomas, and what’s his other son’s name?
BODNER:  Charles.

Brunner:  Named after your grandfather?
BODNER:  Yes.

Brunner:  So he did practice here in Portland. Didn’t he have an office on 23rd? Is this the doctor I’m thinking of?
BODNER:  23rd and Northrup [this is a later location] 

Brunner:  Northwest 23rd?
BODNER:  His office was in the Medical Arts Building across from the library. [first office]

Brunner:  OK.
BODNER:  Dr. Rosenbaum’s offices were on 23rd and Flanders.

Brunner:  Maybe that’s who I’m thinking of. I’ve read a lot of oral histories. Where was your husband’s office?
BODNER:  George was in a building downtown and then he went into the Flanders Street Medical Clinic on Flanders between 22nd and 23rd.

Brunner:  It might be your husband I’m thinking of then, because I do remember reading about that. Can you remind me again what your husband’s specialty was?
BODNER:  He was a dentist. [He specialized in crown and bridge reconstruction.]

Brunner:  That’s right. So this is from the reunion. You have a file on everybody, don’t you?
BODNER:  I’ve been a collector all my life [laughs].

Brunner:  It’s very helpful.
BODNER:  I became the family historian of all the cousins, so to speak.

Brunner:  It just kind of happened that way?
BODNER:  I was the older one. They didn’t tell me. There was a pile of pictures here; I just took them. There were some old letters; I took them. There are some very old letters, Grandpa Goodman, especially.

Brunner:  They’re lucky that you did [looking through letters together]. Mort Goodman’s letters. So this is from your grandfather. In your grandfather’s hand. He was an optometrist, too. And his brother?
BODNER:  And his son was Sam Goodman who was an optometrist, and Sam’s son Leon is an optometrist living in Seattle. There was Charles, Sam, and Leon. [father and next two generations]

Brunner:  Whose sons were they? I’m confused now.
BODNER:  Sam [Oldest son of Charles W.]. If I had the family tree, it would be easy. This is Sam.

Brunner:  OK, the half-brother.
BODNER:  Sam lived in Oregon all his life, but he moved from Portland to Sweet Home, but his son Leon lives in Seattle. He was born in Oregon but he lives in Seattle.

Brunner:  Sam’s three boys were Leon, Charles, and …
BODNER:  No [laugh]. Sam had one son and one daughter. The daughter was a social worker, I believe. That’s Sharon Goodman Gittelsohn.

Brunner:  Does she still live here?
BODNER:  No, she’s trying to move back, but she lives in Berkeley. She married a famous man and they…let’s see, did they ever live in Oregon? She married a medical statistician, if you’ve ever heard of a medical statistician [Both laugh] and a professor at Johns Hopkins.

Brunner:  I’ve heard of them, but what makes him famous?
BODNER:  He was one of the more renowned medical statisticians in the United States.

Brunner:  I was a little worried when I didn’t recognize his name.
BODNER:  Renowned in that field. And Sharon is right here. This is Sharon. And [?] is her father. And her brother’s not here [Refers to family reunion photo]. 

Brunner:  So it looks like everybody on the Goodman side was either…
BODNER:  Medical, pharmacy, [and optometry]. My husband’s the only dental, but he entered the family by marriage. [There are also a nurse and medical social workers in the family]

Brunner:  But didn’t he also go to dental school because, I’m just thinking back to his oral history…
BODNER:  Because he couldn’t get into medical school. Discrimination.

Brunner:  The quotas?
BODNER:  Yes.

Brunner:  Because he was a doctor, and your whole family was doctors, is that how you started to talk? You had something in common?
BODNER:  How I met George? No. We met when he had graduated University of Oregon, and it had nothing to do with his field of interest. We met at a party.

Brunner:  A private party? A Community Center party?
BODNER:  A private party. That’s all in my interview.

Brunner:  I’ve looked through yours, too. There’s some good stuff. 
BODNER:  Thank you.

Brunner:  I’ll have talk to that other name you gave me to see what Joseph Goodman did, because his sons seem like the only ones who didn’t go into the medical field.
BODNER:  Well, and Janet could tell you what her grandfather did. But Irv, of course, became an attorney, and his two brothers were not medical. Irv’s two brothers…

Brunner:  Oh, he had two brothers? That was on a list you gave me. Those two brothers, Leo and Roy.
BODNER:  Leo was a high school teacher in Oregon City, and Roy was a musician as far as I know, and he moved from Portland to Spokane on a doctor’s advice. He was asthmatic, and they said move to a dry climate.

Brunner:  Spokane was the dry climate he moved to?
Anne:   It’s pretty dry isn’t it? I mean, it’s on the east side. Is that high desert?
BODNER:  I’ve been to Spokane. There’s a lot of snow there [laughs].
Anne:   Dry snow, though.
BODNER:  Probably his ambition then was to open a music store. A piano store. And then he became an agent for traveling musical artists. Very famous ones.

Brunner:  This is Roy?
BODNER:  Yeah. He became a booking agent.

Brunner:  For, like, big bands?
BODNER:  Well in those days people like Marian Anderson would come and give a concert. Or Rosa Ponselle. [the opera singer]

Brunner:  What kind of singers are they? Popular music or opera?
BODNER:  Operatic [and classical]. And so Janet was a musical prodigy as a child and she married a doctor [laughs].

Brunner:  She’s a Goodman.
BODNER:  She’s right here. That’s Janet and that’s her husband. You know that she’s a renowned musician. Do you know that?

Brunner:  I did not know that. A musician here?
BODNER:  Janet, she studied piano, and she went to Julliard, and she became a concert pianist on her own, but she renewed acquaintances – now this is the way I remember the story. I could be a little bit wrong: she was playing a concert at Neveh Shalom and she was asked to accompany her old friend Itzhak Perlman.

Brunner:  Really!
BODNER:  He was then quite young and he was playing at Neveh Shalom, I believe. They had known each other at Julliard. I have a big file of her, with her biography, that I’ve already given [to the Oregon Jewish Museum]. So it didn’t take him long to be a sought-after violinist. So do you know about him?

Brunner:  Yes.
BODNER:  You knew he was crippled? Polio. Very crippled. Polio. So year after year he planned these tours up and down the west coast, and he’d pick some of the smaller communities [in addition to Portland]. He usually ended up in Palm Springs or Palm Desert, and Janet was his accompanist up and down the west coast. 

And about that time, she was moving back to Portland. Just about the time of this reunion [family reunion] she was moving back, and so I think it was just about that time that she accompanied Perlman for the first time at the Schnitzer. And then they went on down the West Coast.

So Janet and I were getting better acquainted because she had moved to Portland, and I said, “Janet, you’re accompanying Itzhak Perlman [for the first time]. Maybe I should plan some kind of an event.” So she and I came up with the idea of a coffee event in the Heathman Hotel right after the concert. She said, “He probably won’t really accept, but maybe he’ll just…” — he went from his crutches to a wheelchair right after each concert — she said, “Maybe he’ll just be passing through.”

Well, I went to a lot of trouble to get this coffee planned for Janet and a number of relatives. Perlman did not arrive [laughs] [after the concert].

Brunner:  No. Not at all?
BODNER:  No, and Sharon Gittelsohn went to the stage door. She came to town from Berkeley because she wanted to meet Itzhak Perlman. She went to the stage door, she went in and met him, but I didn’t do that.
Anne:  He’s just not social?
BODNER: Well, he’s not that well. 

Brunner:  I think it’s hard for him to get around.
BODNER:  So I still haven’t met the man. I hear all the stories because I’m quite friendly with Janet.

Brunner:  Sorry, I need to turn that off. I’m just looking at some of the other people here [Looking at Family Reunion photo again]. 
BODNER:  There are some very interesting people here. We have a Weyerhaeuser engineer, and this is Russ Hoeflich. He’s my brother’s son: State Director of the Nature Conservancy of Oregon and a national vice president. And let’s see if my brother is here somewhere. My brother has passed away.

Brunner:  How many brothers and sisters did you have?
BODNER:  One brother and one half-sister by my father’s second marriage.

Brunner:  What was your brother’s name?
BODNER:  His name was Alan Goodman Hoeflich [spells]. There we go. Right there. And this is his Nature Conservancy son. 

Brunner:  Russell?
BODNER:  Yes.

Brunner:  What was your sister’s name?
BODNER:  She was not connected to this family?

Brunner:  She wasn’t connected to the Goodman family?
BODNER:  No. She lives in New York. She’s my half-sister. My father was married a second time.

Brunner:  What did your brother do?
BODNER:  He was a forester. [And then worked for our father as a manufacturer of party favors].

Brunner:  OK, so his son, somebody wasn’t a doctor.
BODNER:  Right! Although his daughter wants to be a psychiatrist, I believe. She’s studying right now. [This is the daughter of Russ Hoeflich of the Nature Conservancy].

Brunner:  How many children do you have?
BODNER:  Two. They’re in their 60s. A son and a daughter.

Brunner:  What’s your son’s name?
BODNER:  Jack Bodner.

Brunner:  Is he a doctor?
BODNER:  No.

Brunner:  What does he do?
BODNER:  He went to MIT and Berkeley, and he was a computer systems engineer. 

Brunner:  Smart guy in his own right. How about your daughter? What’s her name?
BODNER:  My daughter is Helene Bodner Jasper. She was a dental lab technician, and she studied art for a while, and she was an artist for a while and her other career was retail at Norm Thompson. She’s had about three or four careers.

Brunner:  So Jack, that’s your son.
BODNER:  That’s my son. And this is the wife, Tricia, that he was married to, but no longer.

Brunner:  Does he have any children?
BODNER:  No. And his lady friend [they subsequently married] now is a… she’s not medical, but she’s an elder care expert. And her claim to fame is that she was with the Lindbergh family. She took care of Mrs. Lindberg. 

Brunner:  When she [Anne Morrow Lindberg] was older?
BODNER:  For many years. That’s sort of medical. Helen Dorenbush, that’s the Goodman daughter, Mort Goodman’s daughter. She teaches at Berkeley, and her specialty is, teaching mobility to the blind. So that’s sort of medical.

Brunner:  Was she named after her mother?
BODNER:  No, her aunt was Helen Ricen. She was named after my mother. There were three Helens in the family.

Brunner:  I need that genealogy chart.
BODNER:  You do. These were cousins. I don’t know them too well.

Brunner:  You gave me some Drucks names, too. How are they related?
BODNER:  Betty Druck is a nurse. A retired nurse. She’s Marge Saltzman’s sister.

Brunner:  And you said she hasn’t passed. And Marge as well, correct?
BODNER:  Their younger sister passed away.

Brunner:  How are the Drucks related to you?
BODNER:  My first cousin married Milt Druck. That’s their son, and this is their daughter, a schoolteacher, a retired schoolteacher. This is the third sister of Betty, Marjorie, and Shirley.

Brunner:  So that’s Shirley Foster Fishel. [Starting to look through list of names put together for family reunion]
BODNER:  Yes, and their daughter Karen was the one who started Dress For Success. They’re involved in interesting things. Brad and Karen, brother and sister. He’s a high school teacher, I believe. And this is the one, the social worker…

Brunner:  Sharon Gittelsohn…
BODNER:  …whose husband was the medical statistician trying to move back to Portland.

Brunner:  What was Sharon’s maiden name?
BODNER:  Goodman. Mike is their son. Not sure what he does, he lives in Berkeley, and Paul lives in New Hampshire, their children…

Brunner:  Here we go, the Goodman’s again.
BODNER:  More Goodmans. Mort and Lou.

Brunner:  Oh, his wife’s name was Edith. Is that a second wife?
BODNER:  No. Her maiden name was Schnitzer. Charles is the retired doctor’s son.

Brunner:  Charles is Mort’s son, named after his grandfather.
BODNER:  Yes. 

Brunner:  There we go.
BODNER:  And Tom is another retired doctor.

Brunner:  Whose son is he?
BODNER:  Mort and Edith.

Brunner:  See, that’s why I’m glad I’m recording this.
BODNER:  And Myrtle was married to Sam.

Brunner:  Myrtle was married to Sam — that’s their half brother.
BODNER:  Yes. She was an artist. Leon is…

Brunner:  Don’t tell me, Sam’s son.
BODNER:  Correct. Good! I’m going to test you afterwards, you know [laughs]. Roy Junior…

Brunner:  Irv’s brother?
BODNER:  No, Irv’s nephew. Brother of Janet Guggenheim. Deceased. He was an attorney. He practiced in Portland.

Brunner:  So was Roy an attorney? 
BODNER:  No, a musician.

Brunner:  That’s right, Roy was the musician, Irv was the lawyer, and Leo, I don’t know what he did.
BODNER:  Leo was the high school teacher. And Leo and Roy married sisters.

Brunner:  Which sister?
BODNER:  Roy married Elizabeth. She was a founder of the Portland Opera. 

Brunner:  Impressive.
BODNER:  I’m very impressed when I think about all this myself. Her sister Ida taught me violin lessons.

Brunner:  When you were younger?
BODNER:  Yes. Now the Heldfonds are a whole other cup of tea. About three of them were pharmacists.

Brunner:  Why are they a whole other cup of tea, then? Tell me about the Heldfonds.
BODNER:  Well, this is going on tape [both laugh]?

Brunner:  We can cut that out.
BODNER:  Well, the one that I was closely in touch with is Harold… Harold has just passed away and I’m closely in touch with his second wife who is Ruth Schnitzer, no, Ruth Director Heldfond. Her sister is Arlene Schnitzer. [Harold was only ever married to Arlene].

Brunner:  So Arlene Schnitzer is a Director?
BODNER:  Yes.

Brunner:  That’s another name I see quite a bit in the records.
BODNER:  Yes. Al was a doctor. Harold was a pharmacist. And his brother Bob was a pharmacist. Robert. 

Brunner:  These are all guys…here’s a Bob.
BODNER:  Yes, Robert, pharmacist. But their older brother was an OBGYN who lives in Beverly Hills, I believe. 

Brunner:  It looks like a lot of them are from California.
BODNER:  They all lived in Portland.

Brunner:  At some point
BODNER:  They were all born in Portland and moved to California.

Brunner:  Don’t they usually do that in reverse? Move from California?
BODNER:  Well, yeah, but quite a few of them came for the family reunion and they do come to visit.

Brunner:  I see a name here, Ora Kirshner. I know there’s an Ora Goodman. Was she named after her?
BODNER:  She is the same person. Ora Kirshner Goodman was married to Irv.

Brunner:  She was the librarian.
BODNER:  The medical librarian. Even though she just married in the family, we were very close.

Brunner:  She and Irv were both hard of hearing, weren’t they?
BODNER:  Yes. They were both wonderful to my mother when she was ailing. Her cousin Irv and her friend Ora, and that’s how Irv and Ora got together.

Brunner:  Visiting your mother? And then you just stayed friends with Ora, then?
BODNER:  After my mother passed away the two of them got married.

Brunner:  Well at least something good came out of it.
BODNER:  Eric is the son of Harold, the pharmacist.

Brunner:  Now how are the Heldfonds tied to the Goodmans? Who’s the Goodman connection?
BODNER:  There’s one sibling missing…

Brunner:  In that picture? [See Seaside picture at the beginning of transcript]
BODNER:  Yes. That’s Sam Goodman’s sister, Lillian. She married Sam Heldfond. His sister, she lived across the street.

Brunner:  His sister was Lillian? And Lillian married into the Heldfond family?
BODNER:  Lillian married Sam Heldfond.

Brunner:  OK. That’s the Goodman connection there. I wonder where she was in this picture?
BODNER:  I know where she was. Across the street [laughs].

Brunner:  What was she doing across the street? What was across the street?
BODNER:  I think I may have put that into my family interview. She was across the street. There was a lovely home across the street that the Heldfonds built.
Anne:   And then it became a compound.
BODNER:  On this side of the street were the three cottages, and across the street was the Heldfond lovely home. So now we refer to it as the compound.

Brunner:  Like the Kennedys?
BODNER:  It’s quite interesting in the family pictures; we do not see any pictures of Aunt Lil who lived across the street in a fancy house [laughs].

Brunner:  Because she was holed up in the compound?
BODNER:  Well, this is part of the compound. Her son is here. Harold is here in this one. Two sons, perhaps, came to the family reunion.

Brunner:  This is the family reunion picture from August of ’91.
BODNER:  Yes. So we have here…I’ll show you some of the Heldfonds. Alfred is his name, the OBGYN specialist from Beverly Hills married to a movie actress.

Brunner:  Oh, who? Do tell.
BODNER:  She’s right here. 

Brunner:  Has she been in anything I’d…
BODNER:  Their daughter has. Their daughter is a movie actress also. Or, was.

Brunner:  Who’s this fellow here, kind of peeking around the corner?
BODNER:  That’s the husband of Betty Druck. That’s Milt Druck. He was a distributor in Portland.

Brunner:  A distributor of…?
BODNER:  I don’t know all his different careers. I do recall that he had a big warehouse across the river. You’d have to ask Marjorie or Julie. I think I see Julie right here. That’s Julie. 

Brunner:  These are some great pictures.
BODNER:  I love this picture [refers to family reunion picture].

Brunner:  Do you have that framed somewhere? Or just in your file there?
BODNER:  I haven’t framed it yet. I need to do that.

Brunner:  Is this where you had it, at Jenkins Estate?
BODNER:  Yes, that’s where we had this event.

Brunner:  It was three days, you said.
BODNER:  We had a dinner at the Hilton Hotel, and the next day was a picnic. This is the picnic from the Jenkins Estate. And the third day we went to the home of Russell from the Nature Conservancy, we went to his house for some cold drinks. Also, I think right in the beginning, Marjorie Foster Saltzman had a cocktail party.

Brunner:  Sounds like a lovely time.
BODNER:  It was. Those who didn’t attend were very sorry. This is Marjorie right here.

Brunner:  Have you had any family reunions since then?
BODNER:  No. We have had many reunions, but not large ones.

Brunner:  Not to that extent?
BODNER:  We keep saying we would like to if the next generation would only do something about it [laughs]. We’re hoping that Julie will do something right here. She’s the one working on the book.

Brunner:  So you’re putting it all on Julie?
BODNER:  I don’t know whether second cousins are that anxious to do a reunion, but it would be awfully nice.

Brunner:  It would be nice. Here’s some letters from Ophelia, or to Ophelia, “My dear Ophelia…”
BODNER:  Oh, that’s from her father. This would go way back.

Brunner:  “Dr. Goodman and sons, optometrists, since 1905.” So did one of his sons practice with him? “Dr. Goodman & Sons,” it says.
BODNER:  This is Grandpa Goodman, and Sam was the optometrist’s son.

Brunner:  Did you say his son Leon was an optometrist, too?
BODNER:  He’s the one who ended up in Seattle. He has a whole display of the Goodman family that his sister Sharon Gittelsohn keeps telling me that we should try to get a hold of for the museum. He has a whole display. I have not seen it, but Sharon thinks that he kind of needs to be buttered up a little bit, get some letters and some phone calls to get a hold of it.

Brunner:  Maybe I can butter him up a bit. Tell him we need it for our collection, or at least the copies.
BODNER:  That would be a good idea. He goes to Cannon Beach to visit. Chances are he’ll come when Sharon comes from Berkeley mid July. I will be talking to Sharon any day now and I’ll tell her that we want to do that.

Brunner:  That’d be great. “Dear Harriet” this is a letter to you. “Dear Harriet, I just received your letter and I will write more often now.” This is from Beth? Betty?
BODNER:  My first cousin Betty. We did a lot of letter writing.

Brunner:  “Sunday, March 26.” And pictures [in the letter]. A little purse, it looks like. Handkerchief pocket to put…
BODNER:  I haven’t looked at this for a long time.

Brunner:  I’ll look at them. What’s this one? “Dear Harriet. I really haven’t had time to write for a while so you’ll have to excuse it.” I wonder who that one’s from? Maybe this is the continuation of it here. 
BODNER:  Marge, maybe. That’s Marjorie Saltzman. They lived in Sand Point, Idaho, and came to Portland every…well; they came to Seaside every summer to the family “compound” [laughs].

Brunner:  Is the compound still there?
BODNER:  This one snapshot shows us going to visit. The small snapshot shows…

Brunner:  They’re more contemporary snapshots.
BODNER:  It shows me with my two uncles going to visit.

Brunner:  Is that the one of you coming out of the house with your Uncle Mort and Uncle Lou?
BODNER:  Yes. Uncle Lou. We drove to Seaside for the day. The two uncles and the one aunt and I. And Uncle Lou said, “I want to see my old house.” So we drove up, and he was very aggressive. He said, “I’m going to knock on the door.” So I went chasing after him, because I didn’t know if that was the right thing to do.
 
So this lady opened the door. We no longer owned this house. The lady who lived there opened the door. He introduced himself. She said, “Oh, come right in.” So we went into her house. She said, “I have a doctor appointment.” So pretty soon the two uncles were asking her about her medical problem and giving her awfully good advice [laughs].

Brunner:  She didn’t know who she had let in the house! Is that at Seaside, too? Why don’t you just tell me again. I know you said your Uncle Lou, who looks just so pleasant in all the photos, but he wasn’t quite…
BODNER:  Well, he could be a prima donna, where you had to come to attention. He would call from Salt Lake City, and he’d say, “We’re coming next week. We want to go to Cannon Beach, and please find us a place.”

Ordinarily you reserved from one year to the next. Somehow or another we’d manage to find a place, and we’d all change our plans and go trooping to Cannon Beach, including Gus Solomon, would do the same thing. They were good friends.

Brunner:  He would call and ask you to get a place, or he’d tromp to the beach with you? You said Gus Solomon would do the same thing.
BODNER:  He’d probably call his brother. “We’re coming to the beach now.” Or he’d call his sister, Ophelia. That’s Ophelia. This is the whole gang, part of the gang. Those are his two daughters and his grandson Jonathon Turkanis [who is a Reed graduate]. 

Brunner:  Who’s this? Now that’s Ophelia, but who’s that?
BODNER:  That’s Lou’s wife. Helen Ricen Goodman.

Brunner:  What about Mort’s personality?
BODNER:  Lovable. And a humanitarian to beat all humanitarians. People still talk about him.

Brunner:  How so?
BODNER:  About what a wonderful person he was. Somebody told me at lunch yesterday, one of my contemporaries, how thrilled she was about Uncle Mort having advised her son to become a doctor, that kind of thing. Very lovable. We loved them both, but they were quite different.

Brunner:  In their personalities?
BODNER:  And they talked to each other on the phone all the time.

Brunner:  Mort is the younger brother.
BODNER:  The older by one year.

Brunner:  I keep getting that confused. Let’s see what other pictures we have here. So did Lou and Gus know each other from Portland? 
BODNER:  From high school. You can read about it in the Gus Solomon’s biography. Gus Solomon, Lou and Mort Goodman

Brunner:  He mentions Lou?
BODNER:  He mentions the two.

Brunner:  Both brothers. What high school did they go to?
BODNER:  Lincoln. There were quite a few Jewish people, or men, at Lincoln High who interacted with each other and became extremely renowned. Of course, the one who became the most renowned was Mark Rothko, the artist.

Brunner:  He went to school with them?
BODNER:  Mark was a little younger than these two people, but if you read the biography of Mark Rothko, you read about Gus Solomon, or vice versa. Over a period of about ten years, a lot of these people including Gus, my uncle, Rothko, and others, became extremely renowned. [They were all classmates].

Even up to my time at Lincoln High School, Robert Mann, have you heard of him? He was violinist and he started the Julliard Quartet.

Brunner:  what year was that, when you were in high school?
BODNER:  I graduated in June of ’38.

Brunner:  These guys would have been earlier.
BODNER:  I can’t do the arithmetic.

Brunner:  Is that one of the brothers? 
BODNER:  No, that’s my husband. That’s when we went to Salt Lake City to visit Uncle Lou.

Brunner:  Did you bring some of your history? 
BODNER:  Yes. 

Brunner:  I think I recognize that from the box. It’s actually in this folder right here. That packet of letters is this one right here, isn’t it?
BODNER:  Could be. 

Brunner:  “From Charles Goodman…”
BODNER:  That would be his father.

Brunner:  “Optometrist.” He’s changed his name to Chas now.
BODNER:  That’s the abbreviation for Charles. C-h-a-s period.

Brunner:  I’m looking at this other letterhead; see it just says, “Dr. Goodman. Since 1905.” I wonder if you could read that any better. Oh, it’s to him. “Dear Lou, got letter from address.” What did he say about that, that you still had that letter?
BODNER:  He wasn’t surprised.

Brunner:  That you had it?
BODNER:  That I had become the family historian. This says Mort on here.

Brunner:  Yes, but it says “Dear Lou” up here.
BODNER:  He was probably using his father’s stationery.

Brunner:  OK. It’s to Lou from Mort.
BODNER:  He’s using his father’s stationery. The most remarkable letter here in the one from grandma…She was pretty illiterate, Grandma Goodman. It may have a folder all of its own. 

Brunner:  Her name was Dora Goodman, right? She has a whole folder to herself. Maybe it is in there.
BODNER:  I was able to read it, I recall.

Brunner:  Did she not go to school?
BODNER:  Probably not. “Saturday evening. Dear Fagala.” Fagala was the nickname for Ophelia. 

Brunner:  Is that a common nickname or just a private nickname?
BODNER:  Well, how many women are named Ophelia?

Brunner:  But Fagala? I’ve heard that before. 
BODNER:  I don’t know. “Dear Fagala. I’ve got some wonderful news to tell you.” It says, “Motala,” and someone put ‘Morton,’ talking about Uncle Mort, “won a scholarship, two years to medical school. What do you think of it? We are all excited about it. Helen and children,” that would be me and my brother, “are here. Helen is too excited to write.”  That was a big thing, if you got a two-year scholarship. “That means his future road is paved for him. Doctor somebody. Doctors keep an eye open for such.” Do you want me to go on since we’re taping?

Brunner:  Yes.
BODNER:  I have to show this to Julie who’s working on the book. “To take them in with them,” something about “a scholarship in medicine.” 

Brunner:  “Medical school.”
BODNER:  “Medical school,” yep. “I am too excited to write much. I guess your father gained ten pounds like Morton.” I’m going to have to work on this. “He is getting lonesome for Betty.” Betty is her daughter. “Betty and Marjorie, and so are we. Helen,” that’s my mother, “will write you a long letter this week.” These letters were going back and forth between Portland and Sand Point, Idaho, where Ophelia and Marjorie and Betty lived. “Harriet wants to tell Betty and Marjorie that she has new shoes.” Oh! “Well it won’t be long and you will be here.” They were expected to visit. “I will close with love from mother.” It sounds as though she expressed herself well, but had trouble writing. And I do remember my grandmother. “From Monday a week I will go out at the beach to clean up.”

Brunner:  To clean up the beach?
BODNER:  She’s talking about the cottages. “You will take…”

Brunner:  Take somebody along?
BODNER:  Well, I don’t know. So that’s it. That’s from grandma.

Brunner:  Grandma Dora?
BODNER:  Grandma Dora.

Brunner:  So Ophelia wound up in…?
BODNER:  [Sand Point, Idaho]. She married Jacob Foster. They were one of the many Jewish young men who went to a small town to start a business, and Jacob Foster started what they called a dry goods store, and he sold clothing and yardage, and sewing supplies, and so on. You see, she wrote that on her husband’s stationery also.

Brunner:  On your grandfather, Dr. Charles. See, it went from Dr. Goodman, to Dr. Charles Goodman, to Dr. Chas Goodman. The different letterheads changed over the years. Thank you for reading that for me. That helps.
BODNER:  I just grabbed these when I made the decision to come down here. I’m not sure what I brought here today.

Brunner:  It helps that you’ve gone through a lot of it with me, so I’ll know how to keep it in context.
BODNER:  I have to get some acid free sleeves. This is quite interesting. This has a date in 1997, and it’s a copy of letter written to Marjorie from Uncle Lou. I haven’t read it in years, but it explains a little thing: Lou Goodman and his co-author Al Gilman…

Brunner:  That’s him right? 
BODNER:  No that’s Lou.

Brunner:  That’s Lou. You do have one of Al Gillman. Go ahead. Sorry to interrupt.
BODNER:  Yes. They had something going where Uncle Lou called him Anthony A.

Brunner:  Uncle Lou called him Anthony A? Oh! Somebody’s transcribed the letter.
BODNER:  This is several pages. Two copies here. I better take this home and read it. Lou had a special affinity for his niece Marjorie. So he wrote this to Marjorie Saltzman. I’m going to take this home and see what it says.

Brunner:  And then let me know?
BODNER:  I will.

Brunner:  Don’t leave me hanging.
BODNER:  They called it a private joke.

Brunner:  The Anthony A?
BODNER:  Yes.

Brunner:  Now who was he calling Anthony A? Your Uncle Lou? It looks like the letters from Al.
BODNER:  OK. Maybe it was from Al to Lou. I better put it in my bag and see what it says.

Brunner:  Do you want a file for that so it doesn’t get squashed in your bag? Let me get you a file for that? Have I kept you too long?
BODNER:  I wanted to be home by three o’clock.

Brunner:  Thank you so much for bringing this in and walking me through some of this. 
BODNER:  When Anne asked us for all the names last week, I realized the time had come to…and I own the…

Brunner:  You lived in the same household with them?
BODNER:  Yes, and the grandparents, and my brother, and my ailing mother. That was on Lovejoy Street. And I have in my possession the little table that they studied at [Lou and Mort].

Brunner:  Do you really?
BODNER:  I do. It’s being used by my husband at the beach house for his garden supplies. I’ve told him I might want to restore it sometime. I looked at it recently. It’s solid wood. It’s a hardwood table. It’s just one little table with a drawer.

Brunner:  That’s the table from your grandparent’s house where you all lived together? So you grew up with these guys. I think I knew that from your oral history.
BODNER:  I lived for a year in New Haven with Uncle Lou when he was teaching at Yale Medical School, I was invited to live with him and go to art school at Yale.

Brunner:  Was this before or after you were studying at Reed?
BODNER:  After Reed. It was my third year of college. I was at Reed and the Art Museum for two years.

Brunner:  You went to the Art School at the art museum?
BODNER:  Yes. It was a combined course where academic classes were at Reed, and then part of the time I was at the art museum taking drawing and painting.

Brunner:  When it was just that one-level building.
BODNER:  It was just right in there.

Brunner:  They’re actually having a 100-year retrospective of the PNCA.
BODNER:  Oh, are they?

Brunner:  The librarian there was just going through all the old pictures from the art school. I’ll have to look for pictures of you.
BODNER:  I was only there one year.

Brunner:  And then you went to Yale to finish up?
BODNER:  And then I went to Yale, so I never did get a degree, but I was in college for three years. Two years was Reed College, and the art museum. Third year was Yale.

Brunner:  And you studied art there at Yale?
BODNER:  I did. I went to the art school. And Uncle Lou was teaching at the medical school, and writing this book, and the galleys came back to his office. He brought them home, and I was recruited to go through some of the galleys and look for punctuation.

Brunner:  So your name should be in this book, too, for editing.
BODNER:  Right [laughs]. So I’ll always remember that. But as soon as the book came out, it became very sought after, immediately. 

Brunner:  That quickly.
BODNER:  It was used in all the medical schools. Had three names; Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics. The Blue Bible, and Goodman/Gelman. Three different names. And it got translated all over the world, used in all the medical schools.

Brunner:  So this edition is from 1955. You said you graduated high school in 1938. So when you were doing the copy editing for him, that would have been 1941. So it came out around that time?
BODNER:  I do have a first edition.

Brunner:  Did he sign it to you and say, “Thank you for all your help”? [both laugh]
BODNER:  I think he gave it to George right away.

Brunner:  It sounds like you were pretty close to both of your uncles.
BODNER:  I lived with this one, also.

Brunner:  Oh, did you? When did you live with him?
BODNER:  When I came back to Portland and I lived first with the sister Ophelia.

Brunner:  Was she still in Portland at the time?
BODNER:  She had moved to Portland with the three daughters. And then Mort married Edith Schnitzer. But before that I was living with Mort.

Brunner:  I’m sorry, I just cut you off there.
BODNER:  That’s OK.

Brunner:  Is that when you met your husband, when you were living with Mort?
BODNER:  We have to reconstruct all this.

Brunner:  I think that must be mentioned in your husband’s oral history? What year were you married?
BODNER:  1943. We went together off and on for three years. I met George the summer that I was preparing to go to New Haven to be an art student at Yale. That’s when I met George.

Brunner:  When you were still living at your grandparents’ house?
BODNER:  No, the grandparents were gone. I was either living with Uncle Mort or Aunt Ophelia. It was probably Uncle Mort. 

Brunner:  And then you moved to New Haven to stay with him for a year [Lou]. Then you moved back and you stayed with Uncle Mort, until you got married?
BODNER:  Right. I was married in his home.

Brunner:  Where did he live? Where was his home?
BODNER:  When he was first married, I was not living with him, but he and Edith built a home in Portland Heights on Davenport Street, and that’s when I went to live with them, and was there a couple of years, I guess, and that’s where I was married, right there in their home.

Brunner:  Is that house still there?
BODNER:  It is.

Brunner:  Do you know who lives there now?
BODNER:  I have the name of the person, believe it or not, because the home stayed in the Goodman family until last summer when their oldest son sold it and moved to another house, and I have the name of the person who bought it.

Brunner:  Going to go knocking on their door one of these days like your uncle? “I was married in this house. Can I come in? Continue a family tradition.
BODNER: When Charlie (divorced, retired doctor) was moving out within the last year, and I went to see Charlie and his siblings, they were all moving out of this family home, and I came here with an armload of stuff. Some books, and some Passover artifacts, so that wasn’t very long ago that I was in that house for the last time.

Brunner:  You said last summer. Well, let me let you go. Thank you for letting me pick your brain again.
BODNER:  All this family, I’m happy to pass it along to you.

Brunner:  I’m glad they have you to keep it all in order and help me out here.
BODNER:  You can see I’ve spent a lot of time as historian.
Anne:  Oh that’s a wonderful one [looking at photo]. Can I scan that or may I keep it?
BODNER:  There’s a whole packet of newspaper articles too, there. I’m loaning all that…whatever you want, you can have. 

Brunner:  That’s Alfred Gilman.
BODNER:  At the medical school right now they have a lectureship for Lou Goodman. Here are all the newspaper articles. 
Anne:  I can never tell if it’s Lou or Mort I’m looking at. They both look very similar.

Brunner:  That one’s Mort, and that one’s Lou. I finally got it this time!
BODNER:  Well I’ve probably submitted some of these.
Anne:  It doesn’t mean we don’t want it.
BODNER:  Anyway, these are on loan.

Brunner:  That’s great. I’d love to scan that one. They’re just fabulous pictures. Thank you.