Flora Schwartz Marcus

Becky: This is July 21st, 1992, and this is an oral history of my grandmother, Flora Marcus, hopefully for the longevity of all the family to learn about her life and how important she was to all of her family. Nana, I’m interested in your early childhood, on the time you spent in Russia, and any memories you have of your grandparents and parents and what your life was like there. 
MARCUS: Well to start, my earliest recollections of Russia. I must have been about two years old when a doctor came—he must have been a doctor—and vaccinated my sister, brother, and myself. Then the next thing I remember is I woke up one night, I must have been about four or five years old, and I heard crying and a lot of talking. We all lived in the same room, and my brother was all dressed in travelling clothes. That was my oldest brother, Sam. Everybody was crying and talking because he was leaving for America that night. Naturally my mother was crying and talking with him. My father was already in America, so he sent for my brother, who at that time was fourteen years old. He left all by himself, and crossed the ocean, and came to Philadelphia, via Kelso Garden, where he stayed with an aunt and uncle. The uncle was the one that had sent for my father originally. My father and my brother went to work and saved up money so they could bring over my mother, my brother Nate, my sister Sadie, and myself. At that time I was eight and a half years old. And we came to Philadelphia, where we stayed a week, and from there we came to Portland where my father and brother had come through [Pinnock?] a few years before that. The reason they came there is because he had a cousin there who told him that in Portland there was no winter and the streets were paved with gold. Of course, we heard that all America was streets were paved with gold. 

Anyhow, from Portland on, I go back to my grandparents. What I remember of them, is my grandfather was a very nice old man, but the beard, I have a picture of him on the wall and he was, all I remember him doing was that he sat and read from the prayer book. I don’t know what my father did when he was young, but by the time he went to America I was already six months old. I don’t remember too much about things then. I remember our little house was on a side street and there were two streets in our little town where we lived. And one was called “the big house” and “the big street”. And we were called “on the little street”. And we lived in a little house with the pigs rolling around all through the yard and in front of the house. We had one room, and if I remember correctly, we all lived in the one room. And next to us was a bigger room where we had a cow. That’s how we kept, my grandfather kept him, and we got real fresh milk out of that. 

Becky: Who all lived in that house with you?
MARCUS: Well my grandmother, my grandfather, my mother and the three children. And we had a stove that had flat top, on which the children slept at night. It was warm up there because the stove kept going all night long. My grandmother and my grandfather had beds and my sister slept on the floor, and I guess my brother did, too. I don’t remember that far back. My grandmother was okay, but she was a real mother-in-law. She didn’t treat my mother too well. But they got along until my father’s sister and her children came from England where they had lived for a while. Either to visit or to stay, and naturally my mother is the daughter-in-law and her children have to move out. 

My mother found a little place and she cleaned it all up and we moved in and we continued to get milk through the graces of my grandfather. From there we kept moving. And at a time my mother had to find a better place to live. At one time we moved across the street from a graveyard, from the cemetery, which was very frightening for us. My mother had to leave us during the day because she had to go and get some food for us. She did that by digging potatoes for some peasant family and then for return she got enough potatoes to feed us. 

Becky:  Can you tell the names of all your family members?
MARCUS: My [grand?]father’s name was Yankel and Jack Schwarz was named after him. My grandmother’s name was Rivka. And my mother’s name was Chaya, which means “life”. My oldest brother was Shimon. And Nate, Nathan, alav hasholem, was Natalye. Sadie was Shadel, and I was Bilka, my mother called me Bilcha. 

Becky: What was the name of your aunt who came to stay with you, and also what was your father’s name?
MARCUS: My father’s name was Label, and my aunt’s name that came was Pesse. She came to visit her folks and stay for a while. Then she went back to England.

Becky: Where was your little village located? 
MARCUS: It was located in Russia at the time, but I don’t know exactly what part of Russia. Since the two wars it’s now Poland, and I doubt if the village is still there, because it was so small I think it was destroyed during the First War, and most likely during the Second also, if it was ever rebuilt.

Becky: What was the Jewish community in the town?
MARCUS: There are a few Jewish families there. They had the synagogue on the main street. I remember one man—they were all very religious Jews there—during Passover we used to go to one house where we baked matzahs. I remember all the parents brought the children because the mothers all came and brought their children. They rolled out the matzahs and dried them. And that’s how we got matzahs for Passover. We also used to make our own candles. They used to fill tubs of tallow, melted tallow, and string strings on sticks, and this would form the wick. They would go from one barrel to the other and keep dipping the strings to get the different thicknesses of the candle. It was very interesting. I remember watching it. Also I used I used to go next door and help weave things. And to this day I had a tablecloth that was beholden by my mother and she gave it to me and I kept it all these years. I used to use them on Passover and I couldn’t part with it, so I brought it, and keep it in the drawer here.

Becky: Was your mother a religious person?
MARCUS: Very. My mother was very religious and that was a lot of trouble when she came to America because my father would have already become Americanized and he didn’t observe the traditional sort of things that my mother wanted him to, so there was a little friction there.

Becky: How were you able to worship in your town? Who led the services? 
MARCUS: Well I think the different men led the services. I don’t think as children, we ever went. 

Becky: There was no rabbi?
MARCUS: There was no rabbi, no. And I remember around wintertime I used to wear my brother’s coat, which was long on me. In the summer time we ran around bare-footed, and one Saturday I was running and stubbed a toe and to this day I don’t have a nail on that toe. [laughs]

Becky: Did you feel any antisemitism at that point? Were there pogroms?
MARCUS: I had heard about the pogroms from a distance, it happening in Kishinev, the big cities. But when I left town we only got the wind of it later on, after it happened. But we were always afraid, we always had that fear that the Cossacks would come to our town and would kill the Jews. But it never happened to us. As far as the neighbor, we had Russian peasant neighbors. They were all very nice to us. The only thing is that they wanted to entice us into their homes and feed us pork. So my mother tried to keep us away as much as possible. Also from our window, we could see them chasing a pig around and then killing it in the yard.

Becky: Was it difficult to eat kosher there?
MARCUS: It was difficult, but they had a shochet who used to kill and give to people. And I guess they knew how to prepare it. And we’d have our meat on Friday nights only, white bread and meat—chicken or meat—on Friday nights. Other times we had potatoes. [laughs] And of course we had cheese that we made from the milk that the cow gave. But potatoes used to be mostly our dinners. 

Becky: Do you remember celebrating Shabbat each week? Did you celebrate the holiday?
MARCUS: Yeah, we had the holidays, we had Shabbat. But I don’t remember too much about it. I was eight-and-a-half when I came.

Becky: Did your mother light the candles?
MARCUS: Oh yeah, she always lit the candles and said the prayers and we all stood around and kissed her after the lighting of the candles. The next morning she and my grandfather and grandmother went to the synagogue, but I don’t remember us children going at all or we children going at all, which is good. [laughing]

Becky: Did you go to school when you were in Russia?
MARCUS: No, we could not go to school. My mother used to take my two brothers, when it was still dark outside, and take them across town to the melamed, the teacher. And it was dark when she brought them home. But they learned more in that little cheder, evening school, then we learned in high school. They could do more arithmetic in their heads than I could do on paper. 

Becky: Was it a religious school then?
MARCUS: No, I know they learned Yiddish, but they also learned arithmetic and they learned how to read Hebrew. They never learned translation, but they knew how to read. They didn’t know what they were reading, but they knew. My sister and I didn’t learn anything, how to read or anything until we came to America and went to Hebrew school here. 

Becky: Did your mother work then, after your father left?
MARCUS: No, she took care of us children but she worked in the fields for other people. And they had earthen pots there, and if they crack, we couldn’t use them after they crack, because they absorb the fat and everything. So after they crack we couldn’t use them. But you would do it for the pencils and she would put them together with wire, and turn the wire around and around the pot to hold it together. 

Becky: Would your father send any money back?
MARCUS: Every month he’d send us a check. My mother charged the groceries during the month, and on the day that she got the money, she went and paid up the grocer, and bought a box of sugar, which she divided between my brother Nathan, my sister, and I. We each had to keep that for a whole month so we split it in little pieces and suck it, a little piece at a time, with a cup of tea at night, and if my brother fell short, my mother would sneak him some. We always knew, well, he was the man of the house. 

Becky: Obviously you were living in poor conditions, but do you remember being hungry? Was there a fear that there wouldn’t be enough food?
MARCUS: No, we always had enough to eat. I don’t remember what we’d have for other meals, but always had potatoes because my mother went digging. So we always had the potatoes, and we had black bread. During the week we’d only eat black bread and we would take the crust of the bread, dry it out, and rub it with garlic, and we’d have that with tea. That was one of our meals. On the way to America, my aunt, that lived in another town, and we visited her before we left…

Becky: What was her name, do you know? 
MARCUS: Her name was Batsheva. She was killed—her whole family was killed by the Nazis later on. And she gave us a sack of cornbread, the dry bread and garlic and we took that on the boat with us. And we used to eat that. One time on the boat they gave us herring. And boy did we fill up on herring that I couldn’t look at a piece of herring for years afterwards. 

Becky: Did you have other animals at your house? Did you only have the cow? Was it a farm situation?
MARCUS: Well everybody had their own cow, they had chicken… I guess we had chickens in the yard too, because we had chicken for Friday night. And we had eggs. 

And before I go further, I want to tell you about our trip to America. My father couldn’t send us enough money to take us to leave the country, so we had to steal to get back across the border. And in doing that we had to hire guards, who were Russians. They told us we had to be very quiet while we were crossing. They got drunk in the middle of the deal and they—at that time we were told that if they caught us, stealing across the border, that they would send us back to that town, walk us back to the town of our origination—so we were all scared. Sadie had a cold, and she kept coughing and they kept telling her to “shush”. But the guards got drunk, and in the middle of the night they wandered off. And we were lost. And we wandered around, wandered around, not knowing where we were. Until finally, we saw some guys coming towards us, and I guess they were Jews. And we thought “oh well we were lost!” But they collected money from everybody and they took us to the border, which was Germany. When we got there we were cold and wet. It had rained there during the night. We were cold and wet. They herded us into a room. And every time my sister and I went over towards the stove in the middle of the room, that room over there, they shoved us back, we should go back, but we kept stealing over and going back. [laughing] Then we went to some kind of a hotel I guess. And that’s where I ate my first roll and jelly. And we had oatmeal or something. It was very good breakfast, before we embarked on the ship, on the ship that comes to America. And for 18 days I was sick as a… well sick. [laughing] And one time there was a storm at sea and the captain—we were in steerage—and the captain came down and says, “You are sitting around?” He says, “Put on your lifebelts! The ship is under trouble!” And so my mother ran around putting lifebelts on us before she put on her own. And some woman went around and said, “All is lost,” of course she said it in Yiddish, “All is lost! All the ship is lost. The ship sunk already.” So my mother says, “Well if the ship’s sunk, sit down and keep quiet!” [laughing] And anyhow, we all end up on deck, and they said, tefillim [prayers] They prayed to God that we should be saved and by next morning the storm subsided. And we sat out in the air for a little while, and we didn’t need to go back in for fear of another storm. By the time some other children came around my sister and I ran around with them so we felt better. Otherwise we’d been seasick for so many days. 

Becky: Can you describe what it was like? What was the steerage class like? 
MARCUS: Oh we were up, in an upper berth up against the pipes, enough to give us headaches. 

Becky: So that’s normally where they would put cattle, right?
MARCUS: Well, no. There were bunks there. And the rich people, from the decks above, come down in all their finery, and look at us as if we were animals or something. They were so elegant; we just liked to watch them. Anyhow, that’s the way of life.

Becky: Did your father send a lot of money at that one point? How did they decide that that was the time when you should leave Russia? Were they scared of what was going to come?
MARCUS: Well, there were a lot of pogroms and everything but by that time they had the money to send, which was eight years. See, he left me when I was six months old, and I think I came when I was eight-and-a-half years old. So that was a long time. And I didn’t know my father. He was a stranger to me, naturally. 

Becky: So he and Sam had been working in the United States to save money to send… [both talking]
MARCUS: …in Portland to, so when we came to stay a week in Philadelphia with my aunt Shifra and that was my sister-in-law Ceil’s mother, who was also my cousin. She married a cousin, my brother. They had to get married in New Jersey because cousins weren’t allowed to get married in Philadelphia. My brother went to work, sold papers or what-have-you, and my father was a junk peddler. He went around buying up things and selling them to junkyards. If he got copper or brass he earned a little bit more money. They’d weigh it up at the junk shop and give him what it was worth, or what they agreed it was worth. 

Becky: I remember you telling me at some point that Aunt Sadie had been sick on the boat?
MARCUS: Oh yeah, Aunt Sadie was sick. She had very red eyes, bad eyes from the beginning. Before we left the doctor told her she would never get into America with those eyes, so they went to a big city in Brovna where she saw a specialist. He treated her eyes, and on board ship, the salt water made her eyes worse. We were so worried that she wouldn’t get into America because, at Kelso Garden, or where we came in, it was called something else.

Becky: Did you come in Ellis Island, or no?
MARCUS: No, not Ellis Island, we came in Kelso Garden. That was closed by our immigration department then. And we were worried that they wouldn’t let her in and we had visions that Sadie would be sent back or something. We didn’t know what we’d do. But luckily she passed her test and we saw our cousins from Philadelphia waiting below, where they came to pick us up, and because there were so many gevainen, coming in, immigrants, but everybody waved, so we waved too. But they finally found my mother and the children and they took us in a bakery wagon. They had a bakery at that time. So they took us in a bakery wagon to Philadelphia. And passing through the street we could see department stores that had the mannequins all dressed so beautifully in there and all that. For years I wanted a doll that looked like one of those mannequins. And I never had a doll. I think I was eight-and-a-half years old, they figured I was too old to have a doll. One of my friend’s brother-in-law owned like a junk shop and he had a lot of stuff in there. I went there and I came across a doll’s head. He gave it to me. I took it home, and I wrapped it in towels and I used to cradle that like a doll when I went to sleep. 

Becky: And then you got practice when you got your real kids. [laughing]
MARCUS: Yeah that’s where I got the practice. [laughing]

Becky: You had Auntie Sadie, she was your own little doll. 
MARCUS: My uncle Buddy was the first one. 

Becky: Yeah I was thinking because it was a girl.
MARCUS: But then I had my sister’s children; they were born earlier.

Becky: Do you remember was your family sad to leave Russia?
MARCUS: No! We were excited. My mother was sorry to leave her mother because she knew she would never see her again. And my grandfather cried when he took us to the train because we knew we would never see him again.

Becky: Do you remember at all the feeling when you arrived in the United States? Was it what people talked about?
MARCUS: No we were all surprised at what it was. It was the first time I saw a black man, at Philadelphia; there were quite a few. So then we had to go outside, we see the black man. And of course we looked. I remember when Buddy was a baby we were on the streetcar and he saw a black lady sitting and he said, “Mommy! Look at that lady!” 

Becky: Who’s that?
FLORA: Frances Meyerson. Her name was Frances Shapiro at the time and after we moved into a house we lived right next door to them. And my mother and her mother became like sisters.

Becky: So this is all when you were in Portland, right?
FLORA: Yeah when we came to Portland. I was eight and a half years old and I started school. At eight and a half I went into the first grade not knowing a word of English. There was another Jewish girl in the class that knew Yiddish so she translated for me. After a while in the first grade there they put me in an ungraded room where Aunt Sadie and Uncle Nate already were there, in higher grades, and there I caught up with the children my age and went into the third grade, I imagine, after the first six months or a year. 

Becky: Do you remember if that was difficult to learn English?
FLORA: Well, I don’t remember. I remember reading without knowing what I was reading.

Becky: Did your mother try to learn English too?
FLORA: She tried but she had a mixture of Yiddish and English and got along fine with the vegetable man that came with the horse and buggy, you know? Between Yiddish and he was Italian so together they get along. And I graduated at fourteen along with the rest of my class and went to the High School of Commerce. Right after graduation, though, I went to work at Meier & Frank during school vacation.

Becky: What did you do there?
FLORA: Meier & Frank? Well, my brother Nate worked there and he didn’t want me in the store running around the store as a messenger girl. At fourteen there wasn’t much that we could do. So they put me up in the marking room where I marked clothes. And from there I graduated to the little machine that made the tickets. I use to sit there and when the buyers came and gave me their tickets that I should make. I found that interesting.

Becky: You did that on vacations or after school?
FLORA: After, and between school and high school – graduation from grade school. At the end of the three months vacation they wanted us stay and they offered us a raise but I was going on to high school and I went to the High School of Commerce and took up bookkeeping and stenography. They had seven subjects – seven periods in school. And I took all seven periods and did transcribing after school because I wanted to get out as soon as I could so I could start earning money and buy some clothes [Becky laughs]. Which I did. I graduated in three and a half years. During school my, because I worked so hard, I didn’t get to meet any, many of the students. I never looked out to see a game, a football game. I didn’t get any outside curriculum. But my grades were very good so, at that time they chose the princesses, the queens from the school district—each school had a queen, and now we chose a queen from all the schools. So I came into my room one time and saw the names of the eligible people to run for queen and my name was up there and knowing I didn’t stand a chance in…[Becky laughs]…I won’t say hell. [Becky laughs more] But I didn’t stand a chance because I didn’t know, the people didn’t know me and I’ve never been active so I scratched my name through and said that I didn’t want to run.

Becky:  Aww.
FLORA: And six weeks before graduation we were allowed to go out and get employment. So I went from one store downtown into another trying to find a job and couldn’t. Then I walked the whole way to Montgomery Ward, which was clear up on, I don’t know what they call it now, Montgomery something…I didn’t have a nickel for carfare. I walked. By the time I came there they told me that hiring hours are over. So I walked all the way back crying and when I got home that night my brother Sam, who worked at Hirsch Weiss Manufacturing Company, he was a cutter in the factory there. I came home and he said they need someone at the office and they wanted me to come down and get an interview. So the next morning I went down there and they hired me as a filing clerk. And I was there for six years until I got married. I worked myself up from clerk to stenographer, from stenographer to bookkeeper, and then to cashiering, which I liked. I use to make up the payroll. I was the only Jewish girl there and with the other nine other girls there. I had no antisemitism there. I was always…they respected my religion and they respected my way of life. When they had a party or a shower where they served chicken salad, they always gave me tuna salad. When Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur came they told me that it was time to go, even before it was time to go. They got Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur mixed up. Passover, I use to get an hour for lunch instead of a half hour. And I use to walk home for lunch every day from Front and Burnside all the way up to where we lived on Jackson Street. 

Becky: Yes, now, tell me, when you came to the United States and you came to Portland, where did you move in Portland?
FLORA: Well, we lived in a house next to Francis Meyerson’s house, Francis Shapiro at that time. That was on Second and Arthur St. 

Becky: And that’s where your dad and your oldest brother were already living?
FLORA: No, no, they were living in, like a hotel or motel. But when they got this house for us…

Becky: Do you remember anything about this house?
FLORA: Oh yes, it was a little house with an upstairs and downstairs, we lived downstairs and another family, the Rosenfeld family, that were well known here, lived upstairs. When I was about, I must have been about ten years old, I babysat the little boy from upstairs who was about three. During Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur when the parents had to go, you know they went to shul and had to stay for Yiskor, I use to take care of him. And after the holiday they wanted to pay me and I wouldn’t take the money and I kept backing away backing away until I fell down the stairs.

Becky: Oh!
FLORA: Then I took the money. [Becky laughs] Anyhow, we lived there for a while and then we moved to another house on, I forgot where it was, I think Water Street, which is now a highway. Now, we lived on Arthur down to Water Street, that’s now a highway; the house isn’t there anymore. Our landlord was a very nice man, Mr. Semler, who had a jewelry store. And Herbert Semler is a grandson I guess, of his. And Larry Semler, well known here in Portland, a doctor… Mr. Semler gets to come and sit at our kitchen table and have tea with us and his wife came once in a while. She was kind of stuck up. She was an American lady. Anyhow, he was the only one of the old timers that we had at my wedding because we liked him; he was such a nice man. Then we moved from there to another house on Lincoln Street and from Lincoln Street we moved to Jackson Street, and those houses are not standing anymore. Jackson Street was right across from Shattuck School, My sister lived right across from Shattuck School too.

Becky: When you lived in these houses did you share a room with your brothers and sisters?
FLORA: No, no, my sister and I had a room together till she got married. And she got married, well, you know, she got married at quite a [young age], she was only twenty-one at the time. But I had a room and my two brothers shared a room.

Becky: So did it seem like, when you said that American was supposed to be the land paved with gold compared to the really poor life you had in Russia. Did it seem like a big change to you?
FLORA: Well, yes, we had better food, you know. We had to eat potatoes all the time. We had meat and chicken and everything and of course Mama kept strictly kosher. We grew up that way.

Becky: Were most of the neighborhoods Jewish neighborhoods? Did you have a lot of Jewish neighbors?
FLORA: Yes, we were in South Portland; it was a Jewish neighborhood. When we got to Jackson Street it was a little bit more uptown, I mean downtown, towards town, but it’s still South Portland. And it was around the park blocks where we used to go and play. And when I went to Hirsch Weiss to work my boss told me one day that one day of Rosh Hashanah was enough. And I got up my courage and I told him, “I’m sorry Mr. Hirsch, but my religion calls for two days. He was German Jew and I was afraid of him because he was a very stern man; he never smiled much. His brother was a very nice man that I liked, but Max was ahead of him. And then there was a Mr. Weiss that was not Jewish but very nice man that I got along with. Well, when I graduated to stenography…

Becky: Did he give you two days Rosh Hashanah?
FLORA: Oh yes! He never questioned me after that. Then, when I became a stenographer it seemed that all three bosses chose me for the work and I was afraid to say that I had to mention that I couldn’t handle it so when they came complaining that I didn’t go to work [?] because I was afraid of him and so they realized that I was getting too much so they called in the other girl. There was another stenographer. The Hirsches, Mr. Max Hirsch especially, talked in English but thought in German. I never could get exactly what he meant and I was taught in school that if something didn’t sound right we should change it. So I once changed something he said and he called me into his office, “Schwartz! I didn’t say that.” And our accountant happened to be sitting in the room and I said, “Yes Mr. Hirsch, but what you said isn’t in the English dictionary.” And he looked at me over his glasses. He had a habit of looking at you over his glasses. He says, “Well Miss Schwartz, I can’t compete with Webster.” [Becky laughs] And that was the end of that. And I was very happy to change to the bookkeeping department because then I took care of the salesmen’s commissions and took care of the samples that they had on the road. 

Becky: [talking over each other so Becky is a bit muffled; both laugh]
FLORA: And I was cashiering and I liked to meet the people and all the salesmen came asked us to see some of their… but they got commissions and they complained about that they got cut—sometimes they didn’t give them their exact commissions. If they cut the price on what they sold they cut their commission off. And I know one time when I came back to Portland, of course it was after I was married, one of the salesmen wanted me to—and I was pregnant with my daughter at that time—one of the salesmen wanted me to come to court. He was suing Hirsch. Well at that time they changed their name to White Stag. “Hirsch Weiss” means “white stag”; they had changed it to White Stag. And he wanted me to go to court and to testify for him that they didn’t give him his commissions. And I told Charlie, “They did give you the commissions. I can show you the deals. You knew all about it.” And I says, “I’m in no condition, being pregnant with two small children there that I could go to court. And besides I wouldn’t do that; they were fair with me and I wouldn’t do that to them.” So that was that.

Becky: So, how many years did you work?
FLORA: I worked for six years – my one and only job.

Becky: Six years, the whole time?
FLORA: Until I married. On my birthday, my twenty-fourth birthday, I got the best present I ever had. I was visiting a friend in Spokane and I met my husband.

Becky: Should we talk a little bit first? I’m interested in what it was like when you came to Portland and you didn’t really remember your father because…
FLORA: No, he was a stranger to me.

Becky: So what was that like seeing him and then getting to know him?
FLORA: It was funny. I didn’t know what to do, you know, and he didn’t know what to do with us. You know, being away eight and a half years, you know, is a long time to be away. He left me when I was six months old and when I came here I was eight and a half. But we got used to each other.

Becky: And he was… what was he doing?
FLORA: He was peddling, peddling junk.

Becky: And how was that with your mother and father getting used to each other again?
FLORA: Well, it didn’t work out too well. She was too religious and he wasn’t religious enough. And naturally it caused friction. And there were times when they didn’t speak to each other and I made up my mind that if I ever got married that would never happen to me. That I would say to my child, “Go and tell your father to do this.” And I never did, I never went to that. I had times when I got a little mad at my husband but I never went to bed mad and I never told a child, “Go tell your father.” I spoke to him. 

Becky: Did your mother then [work]? She didn’t work when she came to the United States?
FLORA: No, no, she took care of the children and the house. And she was wearing a wig, one of the, like they call them a “peruke” in Russia, when she came to Philadelphia and the first thing my aunt, l’sholem, did was she tore that off my mother’s head and got rid of it and says, “You’re not going to wear that in America!” [both laugh] So my mother didn’t; she had pretty, auburn hair.

Becky: You said she didn’t really learn English. Did she every really adapt to living in the United States?
FLORA: Oh yes! She knew how to get around; she knew enough. She knew where the shul was, where the store was. W lived in South Portland with a grocery store practically on every block, butcher shop not too far away…. She died, she’s been gone about, let’s see…my daughter was about 17 or 18 when she died so it’s been about…

Becky: 30 years ago?
FLORA: …36, 38 ago.

Becky: Do you think she was happy to come to the United States?
FLORA: Oh yes, you know, she missed her, well, she didn’t see that much of her mother because we were in different towns, but she adapted. Of course my brothers were always very devoted to Mama. They didn’t know my father either, you know, Sam of course knew but Nate didn’t know him that well either. We always stuck more to Mama then to Papa, which was a mistake because Mama wasn’t always right. There’s always two people to tango. But things went along and I remember after I gave notice to White Stag that I was going to get married I was out in the hall waiting to go up the stairs and my boss was getting ready to go to his car. Mr. Hirsch said to me, “Well, Miss Schwartz, are you going to make your husband a good dinner every night? Are you going to get his bedroom slippers and bring it to him?” I says, “Oh? Do you do that for Mrs. Hirsch?” [Becky laughs loudly] And he looked at me over his glasses and he laughed. [Becky continues to laugh]

Becky: What were your brothers and sisters doing while you were in school and were they in school also?
FLORA: Well, my sister never went to high school. She graduated Failing School and went to work. She worked as a…

Becky: Aunt Sadie?
FLORA:  Yes. She worked at Hirsch Weiss for a while in the factory. Then she worked at Olds, Wortman, and King, which are not in existence now. It used to be where the Galleria is now. And she worked there in the delivery room. When she got married Uncle Mike made her quit working. He didn’t want his wife working. They called her back to work one Christmas and he used to come every lunchtime and stand there and cry because she was working. [Flora giggles]

Becky: How old was she then? You said she was twenty-one when she was…
FLORA: She was twenty-one when she was married.

Becky: And what about Nate? What was he doing?
FLORA: Nate was selling papers and then he went to work for Meier & Frank. And he went to night school and learned English and everything.

Becky: And your brother Sam had been there a long time.
FLORA: Sam had. Well, Sam worked for White Stag and in the First World War. He joined in the Navy. And he was stationed in San Diego. He never got overseas or anything. Being a cutter at White Stag, he became something in the uniform business down when he was stationed in San Diego. And I remember waking up at night. My mother was crying because he was in the service. Thank God he came home all right, he went to work again.

Becky: Do you remember, was it a big effect, World War One? I know you were young but…do you remember feeling that?
FLORA: Well, we were very lucky, as I think I mentioned. We came in December of 1913 and war broke out the following August in 1914. And course I don’t remember the war exactly though we use to read the atrocity stories, which was a lot of propaganda, some truth, some propaganda. And I remember walking down the street when armistice was declared; there was a big parade. Everybody was walking down the street and everybody was wearing, what do you call those things that you wear across your chest?

Becky: Like the little banners…
FLORA: Yes, banners. It said, “The Yanks Did It.” And there came along a pregnant woman with a big banner, “The Yanks Did It.” We all got a kick out of that. [laughing] Then course after I got married I left and went to Spokane, Washington and left there for…. we left there the day Bud was…

Becky: Should we wait and start from when you actually met…Yes. First, let me ask you another question though. What was it like, I mean, you were a young woman I guess then during the Depression. Was that before you were married?
FLORA: I was married in 1929, the Depression was stopping in the West.

Becky: Okay, so we can bring that all together. Is there anything else that you remember about your school or your neighborhood before you got married that we should include?
FLORA: Well, no. Just streets, near the park, lots of Jewish people around.

Becky: And it was mostly adapting to being in a new country and being with your family?
FLORA: Oh yes. We were here. By the time we lived on Jackson Street, we were here. I was going to high school already so it was quite a few years. Then when I went to work at Hirsch Weiss. Of course, we still lived on Jackson Street when I went to… I was married when I lived on Jackson Street.

Becky: Do you want to start with, your birthday?
FLORA: Well, I had gone to Spokane. I had two weeks vacation so I spent one week in Seattle where I met some nice people. My sister-in-law, Esther, Aunt Esther, entertained for me and I met a lot of boys there.

Becky: That’s your brother Nate’s wife.
FLORA: Yes, she, then she later married [mumbles].

Becky: Oh, this is before they were married?
FLORA: They were courting. He was in Chehalis and she was in….My brother Sam had bought a store. He had a store in Oregon City and he bought one in Chehalis.

Becky: What kind of store?
FLORA: Men’s clothing store. Kenny Schwartz still runs it. My brother Sam wanted Nate to have a business of his own so he included him as a partner. Nate had saved up some money so he was a partner. He took over the Chehalis store. And Aunt Esther had a sister living in Chehalis, Aunt Mini. She used to come down to Chehalis often and he used to go up to Seattle and they got engaged. They lived a beautiful life together. Esther was a wonderful woman.

Becky: So you went up to Spokane.
FLORA: From Seattle I went to Spokane for a week. I knew a girl up there so I stayed at her house. I arrived the night before my birthday, August 26th.

Becky: What year is this?
FLORA: 1929. And, she gave, Ceil, this girl’s name was Ceil, she gave a party for me. She invited all the Jewish boys and my Honey came. Papa Harry came with two of his cousins who were good looking but Harry was handsome. Some other boys were there but my Honey and I got together right away. I had had a headache because…I had got work downtown that day and were fortunate we were wearing clothes, you know, autumn clothes already. In Spokane it was very hot. This was in August so I was wearing high heels and a warm dress, you know, and I was walking down. Ceil and I were downtown and she said to me, “That was Harry Marcus that just went by.” And I turned around and he was turning around. [Becky laughs] So when we met that night he says, “What were you frowning for?” And I said, “Because I was hot and uncomfortable.” But anyhow, I wore a dress that…

Becky: So, you had heard of him before then?
FLORA: Yes, I had met him once before in Portland but didn’t like him. [Becky laughs]

Becky: How come you didn’t like him?
FLORA: Well, I don’t know. I thought he was a little dancing poof. He was at a girlfriend’s house and he was dancing in the doorway, you know, doing a dance they were doing at that time. Anyhow, I had a slight headache and the rest of them went in to play bridge and I said my headache was bothering, he said he didn’t play bridge, which he did. So we stayed out on the stairs and, you know, while we were still all there I was wearing a very short dress and I had a handkerchief that just matched the chiffon of the dress so I draped the handkerchief over my knees. [Becky giggles] And somebody sitting lower on the step wanted to call my attention to something and they pulled on the handkerchief and it came off exposing my knees so everyone realized how modest I was and of course my Honey at the time, you know, his mother and father were gone, he was taking out gentile girls, and everything, so he was quite impressed. So he suggested that we go for a ride. And he took me down to a place like the Oaks Park. 

Becky: Is that that same night?
FLORA: Yeah. It’s while the others were playing bridge outside. When we got back one of the other fellas told this girl that made the party (her cousin was there). And he told her she’d arranged a date for me with him too, but he says, “I wont take her out. I wouldn’t take out a girl who shows so much preference for one fellow when she meets so many others.” [Becky reacts] We became good friends afterwards, but he didn’t take me out. 

Becky: Who was that?
FLORA: His name was [Callum?]. His brother lives here in Portland. I know Eddie [Callum?] really well. [Becky laughs] 

Becky: How funny. You mentioned that Papa’s parents had died at that point. 
FLORA: His father died of an accident. He was a cattle buyer and he was riding a horse and buggy 

FLORA: and he fell asleep and was hit by a train and got killed. And my mother-in-law died of a surgery. She had blood poisoning and she died.

Becky:  How old was Papa when that happened?
FLORA: He must have been about 17.

Becky:  And then he had no one?
FLORA: He had two aunts and one uncle.

Becky: That took care of him?
FLORA: No. He lived in an apartment and he used to have meals at his aunt’s house. Cousin Herm Rosenblum and Molly and Sharon (Tarlow). Herm was his cousin there.

Becky: Was this all in Portland?
FLORA: In Spokane. See we left Spokane when Buddy was ten years old. The day he was ten

Becky: So Papa’s family, I assume, came over from Russia as well?
FLORA: They came over from Poland.

Becky: Do you know when that was?
FLORA: No, I don’t. One of the aunts and uncles was kosher and the aunt and uncle that my husband liked the best wasn’t. She had been kosher but was sick at one time so the dishes got all mixed up and so she wasn’t kosher. I remember the first time we were there on Christmas for some reason. The boys came in with packages for the mother and kissed her and said, “Merry Christmas, Mother.” I looked at my Honey and I kept quiet. On the way home I said, “Honey, I never want to go there again on Christmas Day or anything like that.” And we never did. 

Becky: So Papa was in Spokane and he, at this point, was supporting himself. Was he working?
FLORA: Yes, he was working for W. P. Fuller & Company, a paint company. He was manager of the store, assistant manager. When he wanted to come to Portland his manager gave him permission to come down. He came down at Rosh Hashanah time, before we were married. He came down. I met him on August 27th and then he came down for Rosh Hashanah, which was September 8th. We had talked on the telephone. He came down and he proposed.

Becky: That’s quick!
FLORA: He proposed across from Lincoln High School on the benches there. I made him get down on his knees.

Becky: Did he have a ring and everything?
FLORA: No. He didn’t have a ring but he wanted me to pick out my own ring. We had a friend that was a jewelry man, my sister’s brother-in-law had a jewelry store. So I went and picked out my own ring and he came back on Yom Kippur and he paid for it. We always wanted my mother to know that I got engaged but by the time we came back, Mom was asleep already so I had to tell her the next morning.

Becky: How old were you at the time?
FLORA: I was 24. I thought I was going to be an old maid. He was 25.

Becky: So you met in August and you talked for a while. 
FLORA: And we were engaged in September. I got my ring on October the 8th. I guess Rosh Hashanah was the 27th of September then. October the 8th was Yom Kippur when I got my ring and we were married on December the 8th.

Becky: That was quick.
FLORA: Well, he was out of town. And Mama wasn’t in favor of me marrying someone from out of town. But when she saw his pictures (which I still have) she said, “Well, if he will be as good as he is good looking it will be all right.”

Becky: So was it love at first sight?
FLORA: Well, I knew him for a whole week. I was there for a whole week. He was good looking. He was good company. And we fell in love, although I don’t think I actually knew what love was until after we were married for a while.

Becky: So you spent that first week with him and then you saw him on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur.
FLORA: And I got married in December.

Becky: What was your wedding like?
FLORA: The wedding was very nice. We had it in a hall. The night before, Saturday night, my mother’s friends and the cousins came over and did all the cooking (because it was supposed to be kosher, naturally). We were married by Rabbi Fain, who had a red beard and was called the Royte Ruv, the Red Rabbi.

Becky: Were you married in a synagogue?
FLORA: No. We were married in a hall. At that time it wasn’t compulsory to be married in a synagogue. The rabbi married us.

Becky: Did you have bridesmaids?
FLORA: Yes I had two bridesmaids, two of my friends. One of them is gone and one is still living. Elsie Director. She married a man Katz [Cass?]. And Rosa Alper who became… I can’t remember names now.

Becky: And what about Aunt Sadie?
FLORA: Aunt Sadie married Uncle Mike.

Becky: Was she in your wedding?
FLORA: No. Well, she and my mother…At that time it was customary for the parents, or the mother to lead you down the aisle and the father leads the groom down. So my sister and my mother led me down and my sister kept saying, “Don’t be nervous. Don’t be nervous. Don’t be nervous.” And as she was saying that she was making me nervous.

Becky: And who did Papa have as his groomsmen?
FLORA: He had his cousin Al from Spokane. We left that same night. We went to San Francisco where Fullers was having a convention. So we got there that night and he introduced me to some of the salesmen there at that time. He introduced me all around and I stayed in the hotel while he went to meetings. He came and took me out to lunch. Then after a week there we took a boat and went to Los Angeles to visit his sister, Lillian, who was married and lived down there. Lillian and Sammy Cohen. Sammy Cohen is still alive, incidentally. That is Bernie’s father. He is 91 years old. Bernie is going to be 61.

Becky:  Do you remember what your wedding dress was like?
FLORA: Yes. It is up there on the picture. It was short in the front and long in the back. I had borrowed a veil from Ida Soble, who Shirley Nudelman’s mother. They are still alive but they are getting up in years there, about 90 years old.

Becky: Were there a lot of people at your wedding?
FLORA: There were quite a few. We had roast beef instead of chicken. I remember they were so busy cooking the night before.

Becky: Your whole family was there?
FLORA: Oh yeah, and then my brother Simon (l’sholem) took my honey and me out to, I think it was Hill Ville at the time but now it is Char House. And we had ice cream. That was on Saturday night and the next night we were married and [mumbles] in San Francisco.

Becky: Your father was there, too?
FLORA: Oh yes.

Becky: Did your husband have any of his relatives there?
FLORA: Well Uncle Al was there and his Aunt Clara came, his favorite aunt. And a friend of theirs, Anne Berelson, came.

Becky: Did some of his friends from Spokane come down?
FLORA: Yes, some of his friends came there and they met their brides. There were three of us couples, Malka (Larry’s mother) married a Spokane fella the week after I did, on the 15th of December. And Fannie Grossman met her husband there. They were married the 1st of December so there were three Portland girls married to three Spokane boys, which was unusual, of course, because Spokane didn’t have that big a Jewish community at that time.

Becky: So did you and Papa discuss the religious part of this since he wasn’t as religious as you?
FLORA: Well, I told him that I expected to keep kosher. And he said, “Well that is all right. My mother kept kosher. I know all about it.” And believe me, he was more particular in the kitchen than I in watching the children so they shouldn’t mix up the dishtowels and silverware. But when he went out he ate his bacon and everything. The first time he had bacon on our honeymoon I wouldn’t kiss him that night. [laughs]

Becky: So you went to San Francisco and then to Los Angeles to see your other relatives.
FLORA: And then we went to Mexico. We went to Tijuana and Aguas Caliente. It is like going from night to day when you step across the border, from the paved streets to the dirt roads.

Becky: Had you ever been to any places besides Portland and Spokane?
FLORA: Just Spokane.

Becky: So that must have been pretty exciting.
FLORA: Yes that was exciting being on my honeymoon and going places. And we had some parties. People gave parties for us, cousins down there. While I was pregnant with Buddy my brother Nate married Aunt Esther.

Becky: So they got married after you did.
FLORA: Well my brother Sam got married after I did, too. He married Aunt Ceil in Philadelphia. I think I mentioned that he couldn’t  get married in Philadelphia because they didn’t allow cousins to get married so they got married in New Jersey.

Becky: How was she a cousin?
FLORA: My mother and her mother were sisters. We had another sister in Russia that was killed by the Nazis. That was Isaac’s mother, our cousins in Israel, Tante Besheva.

Becky: Uncle Sam and Uncle Nate must have been older than you were when they got married.
FLORA: They were in their 30s when they got married. Uncle Sam came back from his honeymoon after his wedding and they stayed with us for a few days. By that time Uncle Buddy had been born. I couldn’t go to Nate’s wedding because I was 8 months pregnant so they came to us for a week and stayed with us and had their honeymoon in Spokane.

Becky: When you came back from your honeymoon did you all go back to Portland or Spokane?
FLORA: We came to Portland for a few days. On New Years Day we left for Spokane. My husband had borrowed a tux from one of the fellows in Spokane to wear to the wedding. We had to get the tux back by New Years Eve because the fellow was going out. [laughs] So we got there by New Years Eve. 

Becky: When you came back from your honeymoon did you all go back to Portland or Spokane?
FLORA: We came to Portland for a few days. On New Years Day we left for Spokane. My husband had borrowed a tux from one of the fellows in Spokane to wear to the wedding. We had to get the tux back by New Years Eve because the fellow was going out. [laughs] So we got there by New Years Eve. 

Becky: Was that scary for you – moving to Spokane?
FLORA: Yeah. I missed Portland. I missed my family. It was all new – meeting a lot of people. They thought I was snobby because my aunt gave a party for us when we first got there. She had all of her friends there and the next day I was downtown going to visit my Honey at his work and I passed a lot of people that I didn’t know. Some woman that had met me the night before told my aunt that I was a snob because I didn’t acknowledge her. I didn’t remember one from the other. It took me a little while.

Becky:  Where did you all live in Spokane and what were you doing?
FLORA: In the beginning we were in an apartment. We had to rent an apartment. From there we moved into a little rented house and we bought our furniture. We bought our furniture in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho. We had a friend of the family who had a store there, a furniture store, so we bought our first furniture from them.

Becky: And you were not working?
FLORA: No. I never worked there. It was during the Depression. We were married in ’29. The first year we were married, Papa Harry got a week’s vacation without pay. And then he got a 10% adjustment in salary–lower. Things weren’t too hot.

Becky: Were you afraid that he was going to lose his job?
FLORA: No. They liked him. He wasn’t going to lose his job. But you know, money was scarce but hamburger only cost a quarter a pound. That’s what we lived on. Eggs were cheap. There was a farmer who would bring eggs. It didn’t pay for the chicken to lay them but they were 10 cents a dozen, or 12 cents a dozen.

Becky: And how about your mother and father? Were they OK during the Depression?
FLORA: Yeah, I guess they got along. We didn’t want for anything but things were a little harder. By the time Stan was born the Depression was just ending. It was five and a half years later by the time your dad [Stan] was born.

Becky: How long were you married before you got pregnant with Uncle Buddy?
FLORA: A year and a half. He was born a year and a half after I got married.

Becky: You got married in December and he was born
FLORA: A year later, in January.

Becky: Did you want to have kids right away?
FLORA: No. I didn’t want them right away but the two girls that had gotten married, one before and one after me, were already pregnant and I wasn’t. So, you know, it just didn’t happen that quickly with me. Some kind of female trouble. Then I got adjusted and I got pregnant with Bud. I tried again and I had a couple of misses. That is why they are five and a half years apart.

Becky: Was Papa Harry excited when you told him that you were going to have a baby?
FLORA: Yes, but I wanted girls. My sister had girls and I wanted two girls but I had two boys. Buddy was a beautiful baby. The nurses in the hospital outside the door said, “What a beautiful baby.” But your dad… was not. He was born with a lot of black hair down to his shoulders. And he had the thick lips, you know? But he turned out just beautiful. My honey was outside the door and I said, “Gee he is homely.” And my husband saw him and said, “You are right.” [laughter]

Jack Schwartz was born two weeks before Stan. So my mother helped out for me sister-in-law. And Jack was a beautiful baby, white skinned and blue eyes, round face… just a beautiful baby. She came to Spokane about two or three months later and she told my sister-in-law, “He don’t look so good.” [laughter] But he sure turned out good. He looks a lot like Bud now. If he didn’t have his beard he would look even more like him.

Becky: Did Papa Harry go to school at all?
FLORA: Yes, Papa Harry went through high school. He didn’t go to college. He wasn’t old enough for either one of the wars. He missed both the wars.

Becky: So Uncle Buddy was born in January 1931. We are ’92 now.
FLORA: He’ll be 61 this month. Then five and half years later Stanley came along. He was really a gift from heaven, although we told him he was adopted. We said, “We had to take Bud because he was born to us but we wanted you.” [laughter]

Becky: That’s like my brother Hank told Amy that she was bought from the Salvation Army. [laughter.
FLORA: Yeah, we told Stan he was adopted, found him on the doorstep.

Becky: Then how much later did Auntie Sandy come?
FLORA: Four years and ten months. Oh, that took me a long time, too. I finally gave up hopes of having another child and I went to adopt a German orphan. At that time there were German children because of the Nazi deal. I went to adopt a little girl and my sister Sadie talked me out of it. She said, “You don’t know what you are getting into. Maybe you will have one of your own. Then Ceil sent me a picture of Sylvia at two and half years old and she was adorable (she had lunch with me, incidentally, today). And I looked at the picture and I said to my honey, “We have to take another chance.” Did I pray for a girl!

Becky: And then you got Auntie Sandy.
FLORA: We named her Sandra Joy because we were glad she wasn’t a boy.

Becky: How did you choose… Well, Uncle Buddy’s real name was Howard.
FLORA: He was named after my father-in-law Hersh Beryl. And Stan was named after my mother-in-law. Her name was Shayna and we named him Stanley. I know the rabbi at that time said, “Well you can call him Solomon.” And I thought a Jewish child by the name of Solomon could get into a little trouble. Now they are naming kids Biblical names but at that time they really didn’t. So we called him Stanley Gene. He was named after my grandfather, whose name was Jacob, Yankel. And Sandy was named after my brother Sam. Yeah, I was pregnant with her when he died. He died of a heart attack. He was 43. They were married ten years. He got married at 33 and died at 43.

Becky: Did he have any children?
FLORA: Yeah, he had Larry and Jack and Sylvia. And they had a clothing store out in Oregon City so my Honey quit Fullers and we came back to Portland and he went to work in the store.

Becky: And Uncle Nate worked at the store with him?
FLORA: In Chehalis.

Becky: And he and Aunt Esther had?
FLORA: Kitty and Gloria and Harold.

Becky: And Auntie Sadie had?
FLORA: [Uncle Ray?] and then Rosalie.

Becky: You had lots of cousins.
FLORA: My mother always said that I had the prettiest children but we never told the others. She always said that.

Becky: Your mother was still living in Portland at the time.
FLORA: Yes and then she had to move because they were tearing her house down to make the freeway, down on Water Street. She had to move. We had moved into an old house that had an upstairs and a downstairs. We made the people upstairs move and my Mama moved in.

Becky: This is when you were back in Portland?
FLORA: Yes.

Becky: You had Uncle Buddy and my dad Stan while you were back in Spokane. And Papa Harry was still working for Fuller.
FLORA: And I conceived Sandy in Spokane but she was born here.

Becky: Why did you and Papa decide to move back to Portland?
FLORA: Because me brother Sam died and he was offered a place in the store. He worked in the store. Not too long, though, because he didn’t get along with the partner.

Becky: What kind of store was it?
FLORA: It was a clothing store. A very nice store in Oregon City, the S & M Mens Store. Then the S & M Mens Store had a branch in Chehallis.

Becky: So Papa Harry didn’t like working there. What did he do?
FLORA: He went to work for a company that sold plastic for kitchen counters. He did some traveling. The night that Pearl Harbor was bombed he was in Spokane. The children and I were having dinner at Aunt Sadie’s. They said what to do: to get a bucket of sand in case a bomb was thrown or something. And the children and I went back to our apartment. 

Becky: When you came to Portland where was that apartment?
FLORA: The first one we lived in was on Sixth and Grant. We had some nice Jewish neighbors, in fact one of my bridesmaids lived next door. She was married already at that time too. I came there with Bud and Stan and we lived there. Sandy was born at the Wilcox Memorial Hospital which is now Good Samaritan. It is now a nurse’s training place.

Becky: And how long did Papa work in plastics?
FLORA: He worked for quite a few years and then he went to work for Gilbert Brothers, which was.. They had different departments and he went as a salesman. He used to sell things to the different stores for them. And during the school vacations Buddy used to work there. Bud worked there. Then they had a fire in the furniture department and Bud was their star salesman because instead of the markdown prices he sold the real prices. And after he went into the Service one of the bosses from there used to send him a check every month. He used to write him a letter and thank him and then he would get another check.

Becky: So all of your kids went to school in Portland? Did Bud go to Shattuck?
FLORA: Bud went to Shattuck. Then he went to Lincoln High School.

Becky: That’s what Dad did, too.
FLORA: Yes. No, they went to Failing, I think. Where we lived we were right on the borderline between Shattuck and Failing.

FLORA: And Shattuck was closer but Sandy would have had to go to Failing School according to the boundary. So I lied about her. I gave my sister Sadie’s address, which was across the street from the school and she went to Shattuck School.

Becky: And where did Auntie Sandy go to high school?
FLORA: She went to Grant High School. And then she went for a year or two to the University of Oregon.

Becky: When did Papa get into the [unclear]?
FLORA: Al Rosenblum, his cousin, had a pawnshop in Kelso, Washington. They lived in Longview and had a pawnshop in Kelso. He heard of this place in Portland that was for sale and he told my Honey it was a good business, that he should look into it. It was in Vancouver. So that’s when my Honey bought that, not knowing a thing about the business.

Becky: Do you know when that was? How old were the kids then? Were they young still?
FLORA: Yeah. Bud, I think, was in the service. We had that old man working at this place, the former boss. He stayed with us and taught my Honey the business. I remember our first loan. We had to borrow the money from this man. It was a $100 loan and we didn’t have $100. So we borrowed it from this man. It was to a gambler that became a very good customer of ours. He was not only a gambler; he was a crook. Whenever he pawned his ring for $100 the police came in and said they were going to check on him to see what he was doing. If he needed money they figured he would pull off another robbery. 

Your dad liked the pawnshop business. He used to come down there. Every chance he had he would come down and work in the store. He would go through the books, sell things, arrange the merchandise. Buddy didn’t want to have anything to do with it. At that time Bud worked for Zell Brothers and he didn’t want to have anything to do with it. And then Dad went in with Uncle Al alav ha Sholem. I once told Bud, “You know, the Zells are very good to you. They like you.” He was credit manager and the older Zells thought the world of him. I said, “But you know, the older Zells won’t always be there. The younger Zells will figure out that they can get a credit manager or two credit managers for the price they are paying you.” He used to come down on his day off. The Zells gave him an afternoon off so he used to come down to the store, stand around and see what kind of business it was and look through the books. We told him, “Bud, we don’t want to talk you into it. But it is always better to be your own boss. No matter how good they are to you it is better to be your own boss.” Now every so often when we go to work and we talk about the business he says, “I’m awfully glad I took your advice.”

Becky: Now he is very successful.
FLORA: He bought the building. Thank God they are doing well.

Becky: That is not the same one though, is it?
FLORA: No. We were down on Sixth Avenue and now we are on Seventh, in a bigger building, bigger shop. He has made it like a department store. He has counters. He has made it just as nice as any jewelry store. People tell us we have the best selection in town and our prices are better, too.

Becky: Sounds like you are doing a commercial for it right here.
FLORA: I talk about them to everybody I meet. I tell them if they are ever in Vancouver, stop in and we’ll give you a good price.

Becky: Let’s talk about Uncle Buddy for a second now. After he graduated from Lincoln did he go into the service?
FLORA: He went to college. He went to the University of Oregon. He was there for a year and they were talking about drafting the boys at that time in to the Army so he and two other fellows enlisted into the Air Force. At that time one of the Mrs. Zells had a son in the Air Force and she called me up out of a clear blue sky and told me not to worry. They had a nice base where they were stationed and they were teaching them a trade at the same time.

We went to visit him one time. We stayed at the guesthouse. He was stationed at Denver and he had an aunt and uncle there, too, the Posner family. So we had business with them…

Becky: How long was he in the service for?
FLORA: He was in the service for four years. He wanted to stay until the last day so they wouldn’t be able to call him back because if he left early they could have called him. By the time he left though, he was stationed in Florida. He was in Mississippi, Lackland, Mississippi again. David Litvak used to say, “Buddy in Missihippy.” He met Robin, of course, in Miami.

Becky: What was he doing in Miami?
FLORA: He was in the Air Force. And while he was in Miami he went to England for three months. He was stationed outside of London. He never saw any war. He used to get more furloughs than anybody we ever knew. I had a friend whose son was overseas and every time she looked she saw me downtown she would say, “Buddy is here again?” It got so I would cross the street to avoid her. [laughs]

Becky: Was it frightening for you having him in the service?
FLORA: No because he wasn’t in the war, you know. He got credit for the time he was in the service and went to school. He became some kind of a petty officer. He met Robin. She didn’t want to go to the dance. He got introduced to her. You know they were always trying to meet Jewish people. He went to the Jewish Community Center there and they were having a dance. Jeanette had said to Robin, “Go to the dance. You don’t have to marry anybody, you know. Just go to the dance and see if you meet somebody. You meet different people.” So she went and she met Buddy. He took her home. The other girl went home with [unclear]. Robin had gone with a girl. So that was that. After that he had dinner any night he was available at Jeanette’s house. They were married in July. He met her in February and they were married in July.

Becky: They were married in Florida, right?
FLORA: Yes. Papa Harry and I couldn’t go because he already had his heart condition. The doctor didn’t advise his flying. So we didn’t go but when they came back we made a big reception. Your dad and mother were going together at the time and Susie acted like (you know what she is like) like the daughter-in-law. She tended to the table and stuff, and greeted the guests and everything. But her mother wasn’t invited. I didn’t know Stella. Your mother and dad were going together for quite a while before…. Stan’s car conked out one night near their house and he took Susie’s car to come home. The next day Stella brought Susie to pick up the car. So she came in and she met me. That’s when we met.

Becky: And then you guys ended up living in the same apartment complex for a long time and being friends.
FLORA: Yes. Well they had the house and they had the home in Cannon Beach. We were invited there. Tom was always so nice. They gave us their downstairs bedroom and they went upstairs to sleep because Dad had the heart condition.

Becky: When did Papa develop the heart condition?
FLORA: He was quite young when he developed it. Of course, at that time we didn’t know about cholesterol. He ate a lot of schmaltz (chicken fat), and chicken gribbenitz. Your dad and Buddy and the kids used to come over and fight over the gribbenitz. I stuck it in the refrigerator and they would find it. We never used the schmaltz but we kept the gribbenitz and I used to grind it up with the liver. They always liked that.

Becky: How did Uncle Buddy and my dad and Auntie Sandy get along?
FLORA: Oh they always got along fine. They were so far apart. They always worshipped their little sister. They babysat her and took care of her. Stan’s friends used to come over and babysit Sis. They all wanted to marry her when they got older. There are some people that she sees here now that remember her when she was a little girl. It was a grand life, you now? We had 43 beautiful years of married life.

Becky: Was your mother living with you at the time?
FLORA: No, she had died. He already had his heart condition. 

Becky: So when you moved back to Portland she moved in with you right away?
FLORA: No. She lived in an apartment down near the shul for a long time.

Becky: And was she living with your father then?
FLORA: No. By that time my father was at the Jewish home, which was in South Portland. My mother and father were separated. He lived in the Home there in South Portland before they built this one. And Mama lived in an apartment on Hooker Street. She lived upstairs and a family by the name of Greenstein lived downstairs. The man downstairs had a heart condition; the children used to have to be real quiet when they were walking up and down the stairs.

Becky: And they separated because it was just so hard with the differences of one of them being American and …
FLORA: Yeah, that’s it. They never really did get together.

Becky: Once they came to the United States.  Why did she move in with you and Papa?
FLORA: Well, we had this place upstairs and she was getting older and living upstairs. Then she moved upstairs of our place. And Bud and your dad used to carry wood up. She had a wood stove. Bud used to chop wood downstairs for her. I think he hurt his knee once with the ax. And they used to carry the wood upstairs to her. She would come down during dinners after she ate upstairs. She would come down and sit with us. I got so that I used to give the children milk after dinner. One time I decided that we weren’t going to hide it under the table. After all, it was my house and if they wanted milk they can have milk. We used to wait. I used to clean up the dishes before I gave them their dessert. She came down while we were having dessert and she said, “I thought you had a meat meal tonight (you know, in Yiddish).”  I says, “Yes Mama, we did but it’s an hour later (you are supposed to wait six hours) so they can have it. She never came down during dinner again.

Becky: So she kept strict kosher all her life.
FLORA: Oh yes. That’s why I say… People ask me why I don’t kiss the Torah. You know, here in the home I am the only one that really is kosher. I never go into the synagogue without something on my head. I kiss the mezuzah. But they notice that I don’t kiss the Torah when they bring it around during services. So I says, “Well, I don’t think I am worthy.” They say, “What do you mean you are not worthy?” I says, “I don’t do everything my mother did.” And now when I worked so hard for Passover it almost killed me this past year. I always think if I’m not doing something right, if I slacked off on something, my mother is peeking over my shoulder. My sister and I both felt that way, that she was peeking over our shoulder.

Becky: What did Papa Harry think about her moving in with you? Was that hard?
FLORA: Oh, he was the best son that she could ever have. My brothers were very good to her but he treated her like… his own mother was gone. He was sometimes better to her than I was. I would get out of patience sometimes. Every Sunday morning when we moved to the east side already and she was on the west side he used to go and pick her up and bring her to our house. She would have breakfast with us and when we sat down to lunch I would say, “Mama, what do you want? I’ll fix you something to eat.” “Well, later.” When I got through in the kitchen and washed the dishes and sat down, “Well, if you want to make me an egg and a piece of toast.” So I would have to get up and start all over again. But he never complained. You know that? He would have had Mama live with us when we moved to the east side, when she got old and she didn’t want to come to the Home. And I said, “Honey, I love my mother but if I had to be with her 24 hours a day (she didn’t know how to use an electric stove; she had gas. She wouldn’t have known how to do anything. I would have had to be with her 24 hours a day) I would get so that I wouldn’t like my mother.” So my brother Nate came and talked her into going into the Home. 

Becky: How long did she live with you before she went to the Home?
FLORA: Oh quite a few years. She lived with us until we moved to the east side. She moved closer to the shul so she could still walk to the shul. We were quite a few blocks from the shul.

Becky: Then when you moved to the east side she came to the Robison?
FLORA: No, it was later. She lived in her place for quite a while there.

Becky: By herself?
FLORA: My sister and I used to take turns. I would go one day; she would go another day. We were there real often. I would come and take her to meetings. She would go to the Jewish meetings and clubs. I used to take her. I became an officer in those clubs so that I could be with her. Most of them didn’t know how to read or write. I kept books for them. 

Becky: How old was she when she moved into the Home?
FLORA: She was in her 70s. When they built the Home she never even wanted to come and see. We wanted to take her to come and see the new building but she was afraid we would try to make her stay there. She wouldn’t go see it. And then when it became time that she couldn’t take care of herself – we would come there and the place would smell like gas because she would go by and her apron string would catch on the burner. The gas would smell and she would have a headache. So we realized that she couldn’t be alone and we tried to tell her. My husband wanted me to take her with us and told him I couldn’t take her 24 hours a day. My brother-in-law Mike wouldn’t have heard about it. He wasn’t like Papa Harry. So my brother Nate came down and they both talked and cried. And he talked her into coming to the Home.

Becky: And how long was she in the Home for?
FLORA: She was in the Home for quite a few years. Then of course she was becoming a little senile. But she knew us. Papa was here at the time, too. And for a while they didn’t..

Becky: Papa was at the home?
FLORA: Yes, he was at the old home on Third Avenue first.

Becky: Oh! When you say “Papa” you mean your father.
FLORA: I’m sorry. My father. And he came up here and for a while there they didn’t speak to each other so I had to go and sit with my mother and then go over and sit with my father. Then I would go back and sit with my mother. Finally I said, “Now look, you are grown-up people. I am tired of running between you. You don’t have to look at each other; you don’t have to talk to each other. But you are going to sit near me. So we all sat together.

Becky: That’s funny, even though they were married they had been separated for so long. And then they both ended up at the Home and were back in the same place again.
FLORA: That’s right. But Mama, when she became rattled, I would come and see her. Then a half hour after I was gone she would go around saying, [Yiddish]. She would go up to my father and talk to him. She would say, “Der kinder….[Yiddish]” So he would call me up and say, “Talk to your mother. She is worried.” So I would talk to my mother and tell her we were fine.

Becky: OK, we talked a little bit about Papa taking over the pawnshop but I was interested in how you helped there and how you started working at the pawnshop.
FLORA: Well, when Papa took over the pawnshop he already had his heart condition. So I worked with him the first year and wouldn’t let him pick up anything heavy. I did the picking up typewriters from the counter and putting them away and other things that I could do. Finally he got the hang of how to pick things up and I only worked with him a year, giving up all my clubs and meetings. After that I was ready to go home again. You know, talking about Papa, I want to show you the picture of Papa when I first met him and fell in love with him.

Becky: He kind of looks like my dad!
FLORA: He sure does. Good looking man. And this is a picture of when we grew older and I loved him even more.

Becky: I can definitely see a resemblance between Uncle Buddy and Dad to Papa.
FLORA: Bud and Stanley too looked like him. That’s why they were good looking. All my children look like their dad.

Becky: [laughs] I think they have got some of their mom in there, too.
FLORA: A little bit. Anyhow, that was what I wanted to show you. And now you want to go back to the pawnshop. After that Papa kept it up himself. We weren’t very busy at the time. He liked to stand outside parked against the car reading the paper and talking to anyone that wanted to come along. He was a very gregarious man. He loved people. And he liked to talk to them He never would wait on a drunk in the store. He would always tell them to come back when they were sober and he would be glad to do business with them. We did pretty well. 

I used to go in from time to time and stay with him. But as a rule I stayed home and I got back into my clubs and I played cards. I was glad to see him come down the street to the house, whistling as he always did.

Becky: What kind of games did you play?
FLORA: Pan games. The first time I played Bridge but after that Pan became a craze and I played Pan games in a couple of clubs. And then we would be invited out at night and I would play again. Papa knew the game before I did. In fact he played it back in Spokane with friends. I used to look at it and say, “What a crazy game.” And walk away. But I learned it and sure like it to this day.

Becky: And you taught Amy, too.
FLORA: Yeah, Amy loves it and Brad is getting the hang of it when he is here.

Becky: Yeah but Dad always says he doesn’t… he keeps the…
FLORA: Well, he thinks that it is Gin and he puts the cards in his hand. Dad always says, “Not in your hand. Not in your hand.” So Brad says, “I will play if you promise not to holler at me.” [laughter] Last time he was here we had a four-handed game up in the room upstairs and people wondered what we were doing. We enjoyed it. I kept four sets of Pan chips and two decks of cards in case we ever had games. And Dad has promised that he will come on Thursdays and play an hour with me but so far, thank God, he has been busy. I would rather he was busy than played with me. It will be nice when he gets an hour off to play.

Becky: When did Dad (my Dad–Stan) start coming? He had lunch with you, didn’t he, when you lived at the apartment?
FLORA: He and Bud, until Papa died, used to come every Wednesday and break the monotony of the week and have lunch with me. Bud worked at Zell’s at the time so he was in Portland. And then afterwards, when I lived on the east side, Dad started to come for lunch on Thursdays. We would eat at the Center or he would come for lunch and I would prepare lunch for him. We had a good lunch and then we would sit around and play Pan and the dishes would wait. We would play for an hour, hour and half, two hours. And then off he would go and I would go in the kitchen and clean up and put the cards away and wait until the following Thursday.

Becky: Speaking of meals, I know a big memory for all of you grandchildren was the Friday night dinners that we always had on the east side and then we had at your apartment on Scholls Ferry. I don’t know when that started. I’m sure it was way before I was born.
FLORA: Yes. Papa and I always had Friday night dinner for the children. To this day I am very happy that we did because it kept the family close together. They all looked forward to coming Friday night and bringing the smaller children. We would have a good Shabbat dinner that I used to prepare myself because, you know, nobody could bring anything in. And it was hard to keep them out of the kitchen because they all wanted to help and once in a while they would mix up a fleisheke dish and a milcheke dish that shouldn’t have been there. But I forgave them.

After Papa died I continued having the family for dinner. Everybody seemed to enjoy it. When I moved to the west side to the Scholls Ferry apartment I continued that. Sometimes Uncle Al and Bertha would come but he wasn’t overly crazy about kosher food. Stella and Tom would come and Tom was always such a gentleman. He would wear a yarmulke when we made the prayers and then he would take it off and we would all have dinner. I enjoyed lighting the candles because all of the children would stand up and they didn’t gather around me. They stood up at the table and watched me. When we made the Kiddush, to this day when we share the Kiddush here on Friday night it makes me cry because I think back to the Kiddushes at my home. It was very nice. We all joined into the Kiddush and made it. We made a motzi over the bread and I’m glad that the grandchildren to this day remember those things. We wanted them to remember and to stay close. Thank God, to this day the children and the grandchildren are close because they remember being together so much. Incidentally, I had a call from Hank today. He called to tell me that he had just gotten back to town and he hadn’t talked to me for a while….

FLORA: later and really talked to me. It was nice hearing from him.

Becky: He just got back into town and he is leaving again tomorrow. He is very busy. So you had Shabbat dinners when you were growing up and then you just continued them and it was a tradition throughout your family.
FLORA: That’s right. We always had Shabbat dinner. My mother lit the candles and we all enjoyed it. We didn’t have much of a family until then. It was just my brothers Sam and Nate. And they got married, of course and we were kind of left alone until Sadie got married and then it was just my mother and me.

Becky: I know that that is a big memory for all of the grandchildren. Whenever we have your birthday parties and people give speeches that is something that stands out in everyone’s memory because there was a time when all the grandchildren used to come. Since I’m the youngest I don’t remember the ones on the east side as much. But I’ve been told that Papa loved having all the kids over because he loved little children.
FLORA: He loved the family. On Friday night he would go to the window every minute if a car was going around the corner, “Maybe that’s the children.” No it wasn’t but he still got, “Oh here they come. Here they come.” He would be so excited. And then by the time they left….They left about 15 minutes too late; the children were getting cranky and they were trying to pull their coats on. And we thought, “If they would only leave already.” And as soon as they left Papa and I would sit down on the love seat and say, “Thank God.” But it was such a pleasure having them. I still think of those days.

Becky: Did Papa love all children? My dad is kind of like a magnet for children. They kind of like attract him.
FLORA: When I was first married and in Spokane people used to tell me that if they ever wanted to find Harry Marcus they would look for a bunch of kids. He was always surrounded by kids. He always did. He liked grown-ups to but he could take them or leave them. But children he loved. 

Becky: Do you remember when it was announced that any of the grandchildren were coming?
FLORA: Oh, he was happy. I think we were there at every birth. We were there when Lisa was born. We were there when Amy was born, when Hank was born. Papa would keep the store closed and we would come to stay there through the birth.

Becky: Was it announced at Friday night dinner when people were pregnant?
FLORA: Well they would wait a little while and then announce it. That was the big announcement of the evening. And naturally it made everyone happy and kissing all around. 

Becky: And you have nine grandchildren and two great grandchildren.
FLORA: That’s right. I have eight granddaughters and one grandson. The grandsons have included four additional ones, the ones that got married into the family–all very nice fellas.

Becky: That’s right when you have all girls you get new grandsons. And what about Emily and Lindsay?
FLORA: Oh do you want to get me started on that? [Becky laughs] The trouble is I don’t get to see them very often but it is nice whenever I do. I get my dutiful kiss and hug. They are beautiful children.

Becky: I was also interested in what you and Papa did for entertainment, from the time that you were young. I know that you played Pan but was there anything else that you liked to do?
FLORA: Oh we used to go to movies. We would take walks. We would hold hands and people would say how nice it is seeing you hold hands. And we would say, “It’s to keep us from hitting each other.” [laughter] And we all had a good laugh. We would walk down as far as Providence Hospital, which was a few blocks from where we lived on Laddington Court. Then coming back up the hill Papa couldn’t always make it so he would stop and I would go get the car and come back and get him. Then he would be all right.

And we used to go to the beach. We used to go to Seaside every weekend. We would close the store and go to Seaside. We would buy a lot of sunflower seeds and eat them all the way.

Becky: That must be where my dad got that habit.
FLORA: Oh yes. And we used to walk on the boardwalk as far as Papa could walk and then we would stop and rest a while, walk a little further, and then come back. We would go downtown and look in every store. He knew everybody by name and everybody knew him. Knowing Papa he liked to talk to them. So every place we went we were greeted.

Becky: I think that runs in the family, too.
FLORA: Well you know they say the apple doesn’t fall very far from the tree.

Becky: What about Passovers and other religious holidays? I know that even though we have a big family we have always had…
FLORA: I always managed to have them at my house and everybody who wanted to came, like Bertha and Albert came one time. Stella and Tom were always there with us. After Jeanette and Charlie came they were included. Until I moved into the apartment–then I had to curtail too much socializing with the family. I had the immediate family but I couldn’t have too many other people.

Becky: When did you move from the east side?
FLORA: About three years after Papa died and he’ll be gone 20 years in January. I lived in the house alone for three years. After Papa died I stayed at your house for about three or four weeks. Aunt Sadie had Dana, who was small and so I stayed with your dad and mother for about four weeks and then I went over and stayed with Sandy for one or two weeks. And then I said, “Children I have to go home. I have to get used to being there. There is no time like the present. I want to go home.” And I lived there three years, you know, alone. But the children called and came so I wasn’t too lonesome. And I drove the car at that time so I could get out and play cards or whatever I wanted to do.

Becky: Is it true that you learned to drive a car when you were in your 50s?
FLORA: Yes, at 55 or so. Because my mother was at the Home then and Papa had the heart condition and I knew that if we got a call during the night he couldn’t drive; I wouldn’t let him. So I would have to drive and I learned how to drive. It wasn’t easy but I did it. I gave up the car when I was 75. I gave the car to Debbie on the condition that she would take me places, wherever I had to go. And she did for a while and then she left for college and that was the end of the car. But the other thing is that the children have always been wonderful at taking me wherever I wanted to go or where I had to go. They would take me and pick me up. And then I took the streetcar – the bus a lot. I took the bus. I waited in the snow a lot of times. Before I drove I waited in the snow ankle deep to go and see my mother, who was at the Home. I would walk up the steep hill, stay there for an hour and have to take the bus back. I did that one day a week and my sister did it the next day a week. And Aunt Ceil (l’sholem) used to come on Fridays because Sadie and I were both busy cooking for Shabbat. Then Sunday Papa and I would come. And I came on Saturday also. It was a long trip but we’ve never regretted it because Mama came first.

Becky: That’s how we feel too, in our family!
FLORA: I’m glad. I have no regrets and I’m sure you children will have no regrets because you are good to your parents and you are wonderful to me.

Becky: It must have been nice when you moved to the west side. At that point were all your kids living over here?
FLORA: Yeah they were all living close. Aunt Bertha and Uncle Albert lived in this apartment and Papa, when we visited, always wanted to move there. But as it happened we never did.

Becky: But it was nice for you to be closer to Auntie Sandy and my dad…
FLORA: Oh yes. At that time I was still young enough that I used to walk to everybody’s home. Later on the children all made me promise that I wouldn’t cross the highway. Then I couldn’t do that but I did it for a long time. I used to cross Beaverton Highway and go see Aunt Sadie at the Home every Thursday and every Saturday until the children made me promise not to do that anymore. And somebody always took me to the Home.

Becky: It is kind of interesting that at that point all three of your kids lived within five minutes of each other. That is unusual.
FLORA: Yes. Sandy and your dad still live close and Uncle Buddy moved a little further away and then a little further. I used to work with him two days a week and I work with him even one day makes it nice; I get to see him (not that he doesn’t stop here quite often). He hung up all the  pictures for me and he is always willing, “Mom, is there anything I can do?” I say, “Just sit down and talk to me for a while.”

Becky: Uncle Buddy is definitely a very thoughtful person.
FLORA: All my children are. I tell you. Larry, I couldn’t have a son better than Larry. All I have to do is say I need something done and Larry is here. He is wonderful. He is not a son-in-law. He is a son. I consider him my third son.

Becky: That is the way all of your daughter-in-laws and son-in-laws feel about you; you are their mom.
FLORA: Robin and Susie are like my own daughters. Robin, thank God, has her own mother but she is always available when I need her. If I don’t go to the wash place here I send it to Robin and she washes all my things that I don’t trust them to do here. And I’m sure Mother or Dad would do it if I needed.

Becky: That’s right, at my house Dad does the laundry.
FLORA: I thank God morning, noon, and night for my children. You know my favorite saying is, “When God took my husband he took the crown off of my head but he left me the jewels and they are precious.” That is my favorite saying when I think about that.

Becky: How many years did you live in the apartment on Scholls Ferry?
FLORA: I was there 17 or 18 years. Then I landed in the hospital, as you know, because I over worked after I had a viral infection trying to get Passover – my kitchen all Pesadich. I undertook too much. The children kept saying, “Mom, you will never do this again. If necessary you will go to the Home for a week at Passover. We can take you back and forth for meals, or whatever you want. But you will never go through this work again.” And as it happened, I never did because, as you know, instead of going to the Seder last year I went to the hospital. And from the hospital to the infirmary and from the infirmary I moved on to the Robison, knowing that my children are happy that I am taken care of. I decided I am going to be happy, and to tell you the truth – I am happy. It is the only place for a lazy person. I have nothing to do. I can have everything done around me. I get three good meals. Who could ask for anything more? I play bingo on Tuesdays. 

Becky: You are a big winner in bingo.
FLORA: That’s right I win two games, which is all you can win. Once in a while I win only one game and a couple of times I didn’t win anything. When people say, “Oh you didn’t win anything.” I say, “Well you can all take up a collection if you want to.” So we get a laugh out of it. Thank God I don’t need the two quarters. I am saving them for when Emily and Lindsay lose teeth. I will give them to them. When I give Emily two, I give Lindsay one because she still hasn’t lost any teeth.

Becky: You are the only person at the Robison Home that still works, aren’t you?
FLORA: Yes. I am the only person that still works. I am the only person that wears a kippah to services and I am the only person (I was told) that kisses the mezuzah when I go out and when I come in. When I go out I kiss the mezuzah and say, “Please God bring me back safely.” And when I come back I kiss the mezuzah and say, “Thank God I am back.”

Becky: What do you do for Uncle Buddy when you work at the pawnshop?
FLORA: I used to do a little bit of everything but now I try to keep away from the money as much as possible because my eyesight isn’t that good. If there is ever a mistake I don’t want him to think, “Well, Mom is getting older and she can’t see so well, so she did it.” But I once told Kelly, “Honey, your father will never tell me to leave so I want you to be the one. If you ever see that I am making mistakes and I am not carrying my weight around here and doing the work. Please let me know so that I can quit gracefully and not have your father, which I knew he never will, tell me to go.” He never did that to one of the cousins who used to work for him even though he used to make mistakes. Buddy would never tell him to leave.

Becky: I heard you are the best worker over there.
FLORA: Well, I’m not the best worker. They are all good workers. But I am the busiest. I never sit idle. Even when Buddy says, “Mom, take the paper and sit and rest a while.” I will always find something to do. There is always something to do. I used to take a rag and go around and clean everything. But now we have a good fellow that does that. But I sit in the back and I always find some paperwork to do. There is always enough to keep me busy. Buddy tries to take me in later in the morning and bring me home earlier but now that I work on Monday, which is a busy day, he takes me in a half-hour to an hour later but we always stay until the end. He says, “Mom are you tired? Sit down.” And I say, “No, I can wait. You just do everything that you have to do and I will do something.” I may change a date or do a few little things. We get along. I like all the workers there and I enjoy working. And naturally, seeing Buddy is am added pleasure.

Becky: And you get to see Kelly, too.
FLORA: Oh it’s nice to see her on Mondays now. When I go back to working two days I will probably work Mondays and Wednesdays and I will see Kelly both of those days.

Becky: You are going to work more than anybody, Nana.
FLORA: Oh, I used to work Mondays and Tuesdays but now I don’t like to miss the bingo game. My gambler instinct still comes out.

Becky: Maybe there is a trip to Las Vegas left in you.
FLORA: No, my trips are gone. They are in the past. When Papa was alive we used to go to Las Vegas often because we would go and visit his sister and brother-in-law and they always took us to Las Vegas. I would play the nickel slot machines. Now I don’t want to go anymore. When Jeanette and Charlie used to live in Reno we would go quite often to Reno and we would visit them and do some gambling then, too. Jeanette would have games for me at her house. She would invite some people she knew that played and we would have a game at the house.

Becky: Did you and Papa ever take any trips besides your honeymoon when you were together?
FLORA: Well, when we were down there we went to Tijuana, Agua Caliente. Maybe I mentioned that already. And Papa and I went to Israel; it must be about 22 or 23 years ago. Papa, of course, couldn’t do very much walking there and in Israel you have to walk if you want to see anything. We took in a few of the sights and we visited all the bigger cities. We spent four weeks in Haifa with our cousins there, Isaac and Sarah (may she rest in peace). Then we went to Tel Aviv. Then we went to Jerusalem and right after Passover we left for America. We went to England and spent some time in London, where we had cousins. I am a great one for visiting relatives. Then we went down to Cardiff, South Wales, where I have some cousins on my father’s side, nieces and nephews.

And when Uncle Buddy was in the service he was stationed in England for a while. He went down to Cardiff and they showed him a wonderful time, their American cousin. He remembers them from that. I don’t hear from any of them now but I correspond with my cousin’s daughter, who is living in Kansas City. Her name is Annie Bra…[?], same as Isaac’s. She married a soldier during the war. He was stationed in England and she met him. They needed somebody for a bris in the family and they called up some soldiers. Alec came and she met him there. They got married and she came to America. She brought her mother over after her father died. Her mother and father were here several times to visit my father, who was their uncle. When the Tonkey, who we think are related to the Tonkons here because my dad used to know Old Man Tonkon here and told him once that the family came from England and the name was Tonkinagy. They changed it to Tonkon here and my cousin’s family changed it to Tonkey. After Alec died Sonya used to come and visit us. Aunt Sadie and I went to Kansas City to a wedding and we saw Sonya. We went to the wedding so we stayed at Annie’s house. They showed us a wonderful time.

Becky: And just a few years ago you went to Israel again.
FLORA: I went to Israel about ten years ago. With Helen and Sylvan Sapperstein and Rabbi Stampfer and Goldie. We had a nice tour. Then I went again about four years ago with Bud and Robin. It was very nice. Robin said, “Mom would you care to go to Israel with us? Bud and I are thinking about it.” And I thought, “Gee, if they are asking me, naturally I will go.” And away I went.

Becky: And you got to see Isaac and Sarah and all of the relatives again.
FLORA: Oh, I saw the whole family. We had more of a tour. When I went Helen and Sylvan we really had a tour. We went everyplace, to Masada and all over. At that time I could walk real good so we got to see everything. When I went with Bud and Robin already I chose not to go to the Masada because I had seen it and instead I went to the beauty parlor. We stayed in nice hotels and everything.

Becky: I know when my mom and dad were just in Israel they got to go to a wedding or a bar mitzvah. And some of them have come over to visit us here.
FLORA: Yes, Isaac was here for two weeks and stayed at my apartment. I didn’t know too much what to do with him but he liked to walk around. He would walk down to the Safeway and walk around the shopping mall. He enjoyed it and the children were all very nice to him. They had him out for dinner and everything. Isaac is kosher but not as kosher as I was and he would always look to see what I ordered before he would order. I would say, “Isaac, you eat what you want. Don’t look at me. You do as you please.” But he always ate kosher while he was with me.

Becky: I know that while I was in Israel for the summer, probably about eight years ago now, I stayed with Isaac, as did Michael Schwartz. We were both in Israel together. He was very hospitable. Even though we are so far away in different countries there is still that same family connection.
FLORA: Sarah had already had her stroke by that time. And Isaac used to make breakfast for me, French toast. He knew I liked that so he would make it. Sarah would make us salads. With one hand she would stand in the kitchen and chop vegetables and make a salad. She was an educated woman. She came from Czechoslovakia. 

Becky: He had a difficult story of getting out of Russia and getting to Israel.
FLORA: Well, we sent him a ticket to get out of Russia. Boris, his brother, had a tough time because he was a soldier in the Russian Army and when he came back to his little village he found out that his whole family had all been killed by the Nazis or the Russians. You know the Russians weren’t that good either. They were all killed. So he hitch-hiked with another friend and they went to a French camp and from there he got to Israel.

Becky: I think they both may have gotten there before Israel was Israel. So they dealt with a lot of the struggle for it to become a nation. And didn’t Isaac meet Sarah when he was in the hospital?

Becky: Okay, we were just talking about, our relatives in Israel. I’m not sure whether Isaac met Sarah when he was in the hospital.
FLORA: Oh yes, I heard that they met then. He was shot when he got to Israel. He was shot by an Arab in the leg. So he landed in the hospital. So then I heard that he met her. She was a nurse in the hospital. Later on I think he told me that they met at night school. They were both going to classes, taking Hebrew and things. So, whatever story he chooses it was nice that he met her and they were very happy. They had two children, Avi and Ditzah, who are both now married.

Becky: And live in Noda.
FLORA: Yes, both Avi and Ditzah are married and Neva and now Dan have two boys; one of them now is in the service.

Becky: I can’t believe that. I remember when they were in California and we went to visit them and I thought they were so little at the time. And then someone tells me he’s, you know [in the army]. I guess that’s what happens when you get older. Everyone else gets older, too. 
FLORA: It’s true. Well, it’s like Gia, when they came the first time, Neva came here. Gia was holding on to her pants as they came out to the ramp of the airport and she had Ito in the basket and was carrying it.

Becky: And Avi and Ditzah came and stayed in Oregon. They lived…
FLORA: Yes, lived in Corvallis while he was going to school there and also teaching some class there in Israeli fields. He was taking up different wheat and grain seeds so that he would know more about planting what they needed in Israel.

Becky: I remember, I don’t know whether it was one of the high holidays or it was some family occasion and we were at a restaurant and they came to be with the family. And so they have a little daughter and I was sitting. (I think they two even). And I was talking to the younger one and she was so cute, I’m sitting there talking to her.
FLORA: It was my birthday

Becky: Yes, it was your birthday!
FLORA: They came on my birthday.

Becky: And I was talking to her and kept ignoring me. And I was like, “Okay, maybe this little girl just doesn’t like me.” And then I found out she can’t understand English, so no wonder. Someone is sitting there talking in what sounds like gibberish to her and I’m asking her these questions but…
FLORA: Well, they stayed here a year and by the time they left, she and her sister both could talk in English and they still read English. Ditzah writes and they still keep up their English.

Becky: That’s nice.
FLORA: Eventually, as they get older, they take it in school. They’re very active there from what Ditzah writes ad what ….Avi! [giggles] My memory withers away.

Becky: And, so does mine. [laughs] And Bev is a nurse. I don’t know if she’s still doing that.
FLORA: Yes, she’s still nursing. I had a letter from my Isaac yesterday and he writes me that Dad is now in America on his yearly stay here where he earns more money in the few months he’s here than he does all year as a doctor in Israel.

Becky: Is Bev with him?
FLORA: No, Bev is still working at Ram Dam Hospital, which is in Haifa. She enjoys that. She was working at the Dan Hotel for a while meeting the dignitaries when they came. She’s a beautiful girl and she’s a good representative. But when they were having so many causalities there for a while she went back to the hospital. So she’s working at the hospital, Syki [Name?] is in the service, Edo is finishing his last year in high school.

Becky: Well, I hope now with talks that are starting to begin between Rabin and Mubarak, between Israel and Egypt, that maybe there will be some more peace in that area so we won’t have to worry as much about them.
FLORA: I was reading the paper where a Syrian fellow says that there will never be peace until Israel gives up all building settlements and gets out of there which…

Becky: Syria is definitely not our best friend out there [giggles].
FLORA: No, they aren’t. I doubt that they ever will there.

Becky: Yes, it’s difficult. What about some of our other relatives? I know we still have a lot of relatives in Chehalis even though Aunt Esther is gone.
FLORA: Yes, Clayten and Esther are gone. They were the patriarchs and matriarchs there. Esther’s sister Mini, who was older than Esther, is still there and the nieces and nephews, having never had any children, the nieces and nephews are very good to her. The children Kenny and Selma (the oldest, the son and daughter-in-law) travel a lot and their children are married and live in Seattle. Gale and her husband lived in Seattle since she was married, in fact, she lived there before and she met Bob Alexander. They have three beautiful children. The youngest one is named after my brother Nathan. The daughter, Selma’s daughter is Gale and H[?], I’m going to get mixed up again [laughs]. 

Becky: Um, I only know one of them.
FLORA: Harold is…

Becky: Harold and Joanne and then…
FLORA: Yeah, their uncle Nate’s children.

Becky: Right. And they have three kids.
FLORA: Three children. Two of theirs, David and Robin (who is married). David, Robin, and Michael. Michael’s not married but he’s going to law school some place back east. He was hoping you would go there too. 

Becky: Yes, he goes to American in DC. He went to Stanford with me so he was hoping I’d continue in his footsteps.
FLORA: Yes, he said he’s looking forward to that you might go there.

Becky: I’m staying a little bit closer to home though.
FLORA: I’m glad.

Becky: Something to be said for that too.
FLORA: And you and Uncle Nate used to talk every week on the phone.

Becky: That’s right. There was a time there that he would call Aunt Sadie and call me every Sunday. Then I decided why should he call us every Sunday? So I said, “Look Nate, you call me one Sunday and I’ll call you the next Sunday and we’ll go that way.” And so 9:30 the phone would ring I knew it was Uncle Nate and I would drop what I was doing and go to the phone. Next Sunday when 9:30 come around and I was doing something, I couldn’t leave the store or something, I’d run and take the receiver off the hook. And when I finally called him he would say, “Oh, you were busy. You took the receiver off the hook.”
FLORA: And I says, “Well I couldn’t leave the cooking.” Then we’d talk and continued that until he died.

Becky: And also you use to come visit Aunt Sadie here at the home.
FLORA: Yes, I use to come twice a week. Thursdays and Saturdays, when I walked of course, I walked up here. And then when I use to be taken up, in the afternoon, Dad, having played cards with me, would take me to the home. Then I would get a ride back. And then that’s the way it goes. I started going. The children thought it was too hard for me to go twice a week because I’d come away not feeling that great after seeing Aunt Sadie when she was slipping. So they said, “Mom, once a week is enough.” So Nettie Sherman and Joanna Menashe used to pick me up every Saturday. We’d go out for lunch then we’d go see Aunt Sadie and I would play Gin with her. Not Gin, she couldn’t hold that many cards. I’d have her play solitaire. And she couldn’t move her hands very well, you know ‘what you don’t use you lose’. She quit using her hands so I would lay the cards out and then I’d say, “Sadie, Sadie, here’s that red eight, where does it go?” And she’d look down and say, “On the black nine.” But after a while, years later, she became disinterested and instead of looking at the cards she would look up at space and she didn’t talk very much. So Nettie and I would play a game by ourselves. We’d deal the cards and sit there and look at each other and then we’d kiss her goodbye and leave.

Becky: I remember when we use to go to Shaarie Torah, it was probably for the High Holidays, and I would be in the back row where we have our seats and it would be Auntie Sadie, you, me, and Dad.
FLORA: And Uncle Mike use to have seat right next to Aunt Sadie.

Becky: That may have been before my time.
FLORA: In fact now, no it wasn’t. Now Dad has three seats and I have Aunt Sadie’s seat. See, Papa Harry and I use to have one and two. And dad took three incase one of you children decided to come.

Becky: I always used to come.
FLORA: You did. Hank use to come. You know, on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. 

Becky: And I heard you talking to my dad the other day and you’re going to keep the seats so if you want to go even for a little while.
FLORA: Well I use to go about 9:30, which is after services have started but I never left before the end. After the Ein Kelohenu. But now I know I would have to get here in time for lunch, which is 12:00. And I couldn’t stay till… At Rosh Hashanah the services last till 1:00, sometimes 1:20. Being diabetic I have to eat and I can’t miss it. Here, there’s no [?] go to Rosh Hashanah and eat in a restaurant so I don’t know. To come there, cause like Dad said, I don’t have to go at 10:00, I can go at 9:30 or 9:00; he’s willing to take me. And then I could sit until 11:30 or 11:45 and then leave for home. So that would be fine and Yom Kippur, I guess I could stay all day long. I generally meet Bud and Robin and the family and Dad joins me, we go for lunch. We use to go Thelies and now there’s another place. Where others eat their lunch, I use to eat to live because the doctor told me I can not fast; I get headaches. So I used to have a piece of toast, no butter, just a piece of toast or maybe two pieces of toast and a cup of coffee; that was my lunch. And services let out at 7:30pm. After the rabbi blows the shofar and Dad and Mother generally are with me at that time; they come after Temple services. Sometimes Bud and Robin come, or Robin goes home and Bud stays with us. Then we go to some restaurant to eat, to break the fast, which nobody fasted. Dad was latest one to quit.

Becky: My dad, yes, because he gets really bad headaches.
FLORA: He used to get such bad headaches that I told him, “Stan, I’m not telling you to eat. You have to use your own judgment, but you’re not doing God any good and you’re not doing me any good if by 2:00 you go home and go to bed. You don’t come for dinner; you spoil everybody’s, your wife’s good time; you spoil my good time to know that you were too sick to come. So think it over. God will forgive you.” And so he did start to have lunch.

Becky: I think I remember somebody else giving you that same advice when you weren’t eating at Passover and you were real sick. 
FLORA: Well, I use to eat at Passover.

Becky: This past Passover, when we you had to go to the hospital and you…
FLORA: Oh, Oh well, I was dehydrated and I knew I couldn’t go to the Seder that afternoon and I made up my mind and I called Sandy and I says, “Sis, I don’t feel good. I want to go see the doctor. And when I got to the doctor I could barely walk into the office. She had to help me. I said to the doctor, “I’m sick; I want to go to the hospital.” They’re not very eager to get people my age, who are on this insurance, 65 insurance, because they don’t pay very much to the hospitals. It’s good insurance for me but not for hospitals. So it took over an hour until he got me into the hospital. They didn’t want to admit me. And finally he said, “If they don’t admit you in the next few minutes I’m going to take you over there myself. They have to admit you; you’re sick.” So finally they admitted me and they came with the wheel chair and took me over there and they admitted me that night. 

Becky: But you’re feeling a hundred percent better aren’t you?
FLORA: Well I went into intravenous and we looked at what I needed and then I started to eat and I was weak and I was even weak when four days later I came to the… 

Becky: The infirmary.
FLORA: The infirmary here. It was so I couldn’t get in and out of bed by myself. I needed help. I needed help getting dressed. I was a mess. [laughs]

Becky: But now you’re doing great!
FLORA: I’m doing fine. I’m not gaining as much weight as I want to but it will take time. I’m eating good. Three meals a day! I’m really very satisfied. I don’t really like noshing in the afternoon like I did in the apartment. Course I never ate so good in the apartment. [Becky laughs]

Becky: Well we know. Amy and I have both come into town for Passover and whole family was there. It was definitely not the same without you. So, next year when we come we are counting on you being there at the head of the table watching Stan up there doing the Seder.
FLORA: I certainly hope so.

Becky: And that way too you can see Stan go up on the pulpit at the high holidays. You have to come.
FLORA: Oh, Oh yes, I do. And you know, he gets an aliyah and I’m so proud. Bobby said the time they both get an aliyahs, or but Stan gets an aliyah and he says the prayers proudly and loud and clear. Wears the long prayer shawl that he insisted we get him when we were in Israel. He wanted the one the old men wear down to the floor but we got it down to his knees. [Becky laughs]. And  they give Bud and Stan the honor of holding up the Torah and dressing the first Torah when they take out the second Torah. And when they get the aliyahs I’m very proud and I always make a donation in honor of their getting the aliyahs.

Becky: How long have you been going to Shaarie Torah? Is that the synagogue you always went to?
FLORA: Well, I’ve gone there, of course I use to go there as a girl but I didn’t belong. And when Papa and I came back to Portland we joined the Orthodox synagogue. My mother and father were there. And my brother Sam was still there, you know? No, Sam was gone after when came back to Portland. But we belonged ever since. And men and women weren’t supposed to sit together down there. But having two little active boys, we decided we’d sit in the very back row where nobody would complain. We were near a the door, the back door, so the boys could go in and out and in and out and wouldn’t cause any disruption. And to this day we sit in kind of the same seats. We sit in the back row in those two seats. There’s four seats now.

Becky: And Rabbi Geller was just asking about you.
FLORA: Oh yes, he asks, you know [trails off]. He and his wife were very, very good to me when I was in the hospital. It was far and above what they should have done or could have done. When he found out I was in hospital, the rabbi comes every day and checks on me. People that have checked in to see how many Jewish people are there. He came right up to surprise us during Passover. And when he came in I was having something to eat. Of course I told them I didn’t want any bread or anything like that. I had called them before and I couldn’t get a hold of him because he doesn’t answer the phone. I wanted to ask about the food; there was nothing I could do. So, right away his wife came with some turkey and soup with kneydl and everything. And she kept coming every day and bringing me kosher food, you know. And I’ll never forget their kindness to me.

Becky: You’re a good member of their congregation and they appreciate you.
FLORA: Well, it wasn’t that I was such a good member. I use to belong to the Sisterhood and was active. But you know, as I got older I’ve gotten away from it.

Becky: You’ve got to be one of their longest members.
FLORA: No, they have a lot. Well now probably, there’s a lot of 50 year memberships, but fewer older people, you know. I hate to say I’m getting old but I’m older.

Becky: Definitely not old.
FLORA: And I hope to go during the High Holy days. You know, I go to services here every Friday night and I’m still saying Kaddish for Aunt Esther and Aunt Sadie but [Hebrew or Yiddish for what I believe is either the first year of mourning or the unveiling of the grave stone] was over last May. So I still go and say the Kaddish. This last Sunday they had me read something.

Becky: They did?
FLORA: Yes, Phil Gladstein, who’s an old, old friend of the family. I knew him when he was a child and he wanted to know if I would want to read something so I read something.

Becky: Yes, because when I came to services with you they had me read something.
FLORA: Well, then you did a beautiful job! [Becky laughs] Yes, I could read some of the Hebrew, but you know, sometimes my eye tears and its hard for me to see the vowels underneath the letters. The prayers that I know…. I could say the whole Veahafta by heart.

Becky: Right, so could I!
FLORA: But he calls us and they call on somebody else, like Rose Cohen to say that. But, I could say that by heart but otherwise I’m afraid of starting because I might stumble over a word. But the English, you know, I manage to see.

Becky: That’s nice that they have services over here.
FLORA: Oh yes, they do on Saturday morning too, it’s a real [?]. But Phil Gladstein and Milt Hasson are the ones I enjoy. The others I could take or leave.

Becky: Do you remember which one it was when I was here?
FLORA: It was Milt Hasson. 

Becky: It was good, I had a good time.
FLORA: It was a good service. I wish you could come hear, Phil, he’s very haimish. Talks, you know, says a lot of Yiddish expressions. This last time he was here his sermon was on his trip to London. And he told all about how he and his wife went to London and what they saw. He was very interesting and wasn’t from the Talmud or anything but it was very interesting. He’s so haimish, that I just love that guy.

Becky: [laughs] That’s nice. I know, when I was there with you it was crowded. There were a lot of people who go to the services.
FLORA: Yes, the first time. He, the first time he was there he came over to me, said, “Nu Flora, Fegela would have been proud of me, eh?” Fegela was his mother. She and my mother were very friendly. You know, in a way we are slightly related some place clear back.

Becky: Aren’t all Jewish people? [laughs]
FLORA: Kol Chavera they say that all Jews are brothers, but he’s a nice fella.

Becky: I found out, I just found a new apartment in San Francisco for law school and I found out that there’s a synagogue right near me. So, we already called the temple and made arrangements so I can go to the High Holidays. It works out well.
FLORA: Well, the second night I always get a ticket to go to Neveh Shalom. And after we have dinner, well…. It’s really the first night. After we have dinner at your house, you know, everybody goes to Temple and, I go to the Neveh Shalom with Sis and Larry. And the second night I always went to Sis and Larry because my ticket was good for two nights. I’ll have to talk to Sylvia T[?] to buy a ticket for the two nights or depending on how I feel I might decide not to.

Becky: That’s nice too that a lot of your brother’s and sister’s kids are still in Portland. _____, _____, Jack and Barbra, and Rosalie…[Flora starts to talk over Becky]
FLORA: They go to Neveh Shalom too. I see a lot of friends down there when I go. 

Becky: And Rosaline and Loraine still come and see you too here at…
FLORA: Well, yes. They belong to Neveh Shalom and they come, everybody comes. Sylvia had lunch with me yesterday. And Dana called last night and said she and Sheryl want to come over tonight. Well, as it happens, tonight is bingo night from 6:30 to 7:30. And then she was going to call Sheryl and see if they could come later and then I remembered I had to call her back that Monday night and Thursday night are bath nights. That’s about 8:00 or 8:15.

Becky: Well, you’re definitely one of the most busy people here. I know that.
FLORA: The day goes so fast so I called Dana back again and they are going to try and make it next week. I said, “Why don’t you come have dinner with me?” And she says that would be better. So if they decide to have dinner I’m going to call Debbie as well and have her come so the three can have dinner.

Becky: Well, I know when I was here for dinner the women that you sit with at dinner were telling me that how you are one of the busiest people here and have so many visitors.
FLORA: I do. When I go up to meals they say, “Well, what day is today? Who’s coming to see you?” [Becky laughs] And you know, sometimes it’s a little bit of a relief to be alone. You know, and I come down here and I lay down for a while, I finish reading the paper, I watch my taped stories. And somebody will drop in. Only the cleaning women come in, while I’m sitting doing nothing they’re busy cleaning.

Becky: I guess that’s part of the advantage of having a big family though, too, is there is always plenty of people to see you.
FLORA: Oh yes. Well, it’s wonderful, Honey. And I’m going to call Hank and leave a message on his, oh, he’s leaving tomorrow. But I’ll leave a message anyways and tell him that I hope he and Kathy again. They were here once to see me, and I’ll tell him I’d love to have Kathy and Hank come for lunch or dinner. Lunch is generally better than dinner. So I’ll tell him that … it would be wonderful they would come and have a…

Becky: You get to see everyone not too far away on your birthday too.
FLORA: Well, yes, I’m looking forward to it. Hoping Hank will be in town.

Becky: Hopefully.
FLORA:  You’ll be still here, right?

Becky: No, I’ll be gone.
FLORA: No? Oh… Becky, Becky, Becky. 

Becky: Well, you know….What birthday will this be?
FLORA: 87 years young. [Becky laughs]

Becky: We’ve had some really nice birthday parties for you too.
FLORA: Oh, yes, I’m looking forward. I miss___, if we take a picture which I hope we take this year, I…that was taken two years ago. I hope that…[Lots of mumbling] it’s going to be at home. [more mumbling] And I will miss you.

Becky: You sure have a lot of pictures around here, you have Auntie Sandy, and my mom, and Auntie Robin in their wedding dresses.
FLORA: Well, yes, [mumbling]… They told me not to hang those up. I said, “Oh yes, I want those. I’ve always had them since they got married I want those

Becky: And right below that, that’s the picture of you and Papa, right? And then you’ve got pictures of all of your family don’t you?
FLORA: I had to show what Papa and I produced. [Becky laughs]

Becky: You’ve got my family, uncle Buddy’s family, Auntie Sandy’s family. That’s nice.
FLORA: Yes.

Becky: Is there any other major things that we should include?
FLORA: Well, I can’t think of too much more. I think I’ve talked and talked and talked.  Well, I’ll tell you, I’ve lived a busy happy life. The last twenty years, of course, I’ve been happy thinking of Papa. There’s always some little thing that comes as a reminder and I have my little cry. And I count my blessings and I get over it. This morning in the funnies of all places, there was a cute card too, and I showed it to Dad and we both agreed. It showed where a son and daughter had moved the mother into, out of her home, into an apartment or nurse…it doesn’t say retirement home. And she says, “There are so many things left in the house.” And they said, “Well yes mother, but we have a van and we are taking everything to our house and we are going to have a yard sale, and sell everything. Remember all the things we had marked and the boxes that we marked?” She said, “Oh yes, I think I do.” And the son says, “Mother you’re forgetting things.” And then she’s sitting there with like a thought deal around her. And she says, “There’s some things I want to forget.”

Becky: That’s hard. I know it’s been difficult moving out of your apartment but it seems like…
FLORA: Well, I am getting use to it. Like I say, I’m lazy and I’m getting used to the comforts here. I try not to think of the apartment too much unless something like this comes up and it makes me think. And today I thought of something I wanted out of the apartment. There’s a vase that belonged to my mother. It’s a cut-glass vase, but it has a chip in the top and I know it was cracked in places. So Kelly didn’t want to take that because she took all the rest of the cut-glass. So, I left it there. Today I told Dad, I says, “Honey, I want that cut-glass vase brought. Now put it up with the candlesticks. And he thought, “You know Rosalie said that if nobody else wants them, she would take my mother’s candlesticks.” I have my mother’s and my mother-in-law’s and Dad says, “Mom, don’t be in a hurry to give anything away, you never know; Becky might want them. She’s the type that she might just want that candle stick because it remained in the family. I says, “Well, I won’t give away until, [mumbling] kids give it up. [Becky laughs]

Becky: No, but I think that was nice that you brought a lot of the stuff from the apartment here that you wanted but it’s smaller so…
FLORA: Oh, yes, Everything that I wanted that I could handle here and the comforts that I brought, the televisions, the chairs, the telephones and having this big room is a pleasure because I could get a lot more things in here. 

Becky: And you even have a VCR and an answering machine now.
FLORA: Well, yes. I never wanted a VCR. Buddy said he’d give me one from the store and he set it up me and I said, “Bud I’m not smart enough. I don’t want to be bothered getting down and doing it. I know I won’t remember. He says, “Mom we’ll make it simple for you.” So then Stan says, “Mom, I’ll get you one of the newest ones that you won’t have to do a thing and I’ll write out all these directions and I look down on them every time I started and ended, although I already know how to do it.” Then he got me the answering machine, and while I don’t get too many calls because I’m mostly here to answer the phone, it’s always the first place I go just to see the answering machine. And when I see a blinking I turn it on. Today I got Hank, which was a pleasure. Ordinarily I wouldn’t have gotten it. So I got that, and thank God I can still pay for everything myself. That gives me pleasure because I wouldn’t want the children to spend money on me unnecessarily. 

Becky: And then you’re moving up with the technological age with all these…
FLORA: That’s right! I never wanted them when I was young.

Becky: And Uncle Buddy, and my dad, and Auntie Sandy all call you every day, don’t they?
FLORA: Oh yes, sometimes twice a day. Stan walks in every so often unexpectedly and he generally calls, “Mom, are you decent?” Because generally I can undress and just have a house gown. I always say, “Yes you can come in.” and whenever I’m not decent I get decent. And he comes and does what he does. This morning he brought me the receipt from my check that he banked for me, brought me some change, so now it for bridge. Becky, what can I get you while you’re sick?

Becky: Oh, we want this on the machine?
FLORA: Well, you tell me. I told Dad. I said, “Maybe she’d like another disc or something.” He says, “Well, I don’t know her taste in music. She’d have to pick it out herself.”

Becky: We could do that. That would be fun. Now everyone is going to think… I’m not really sick.
FLORA: [Laughs] You’re not sick right now, but I know your going to have little bit surgery. Please, God, should it be the worst that ever happens to you, but it’s not pleasant to think about it, but I do want you to have something to see or do while you are recuperating, even though you’ll probably be at the beach probably.

Becky: I’ll think about that though. You’re always, Nana’s always, remembers every all the grandchildren’s birthdays, and anniversaries…
FLORA: Listen, that’s my pleasure. Robin once said to me, “Mom, you’re so chintzy on yourself. You don’t spend money on yourself. But when it comes to the children and grandchildren, you’re right there. You don’t care what you spend.” And I says, “Robin, that’s what gives me pleasure.” And you know, my one thought in life has been, “Please god, I shouldn’t have to come to the children for help.” I know we helped my mother. My father was self-supporting but we helped my mother how we could when she was in the home. We didn’t have to pay anything at that time but we had to pay a woman to stay with her so she would be taken care of and dressed properly and everything. We bought her clothes and everything. So we did what we could and now, thank God, I can afford to take care of my self. And the children say, I always tell the children, “You know what? I’m spending your inheritance.” They say, “Go ahead mom; you couldn’t do better.”

Becky: That’s true, that’s definitely true.
FLORA: So, I’m doing it, believe me. I never realized what it costs here to stay but it’s worth it.

Becky: Yes, I think it best. Although it was a difficult move to leave the apartment.
FLORA: Well, it was. I cried many a bitter tear when I thought of moving, you know, and I knew I was going to move and after I moved I found a corner around the side of the building and I cried. I thought people could have heard me but I tried to keep it in, but I cried plenty. But know, what did I cry for? I’m happy! I made up my mind that as long as my children are happy; they’re not worried about me. They know I’m being taken care of. The one thing in life I want is that they should be healthy and happy and enjoy life and not to worry about me because I’m happy.

Becky: Yes, they don’t worry. They just enjoy you just like you enjoy them.
FLORA: That’s right, and I’m happy…

Becky: And you’re healthy too.
FLORA: Thank God I’m getting healthier by the time. My table people Rose and Meryl can’t get over that I eat such a good meal without gaining weight. I says, “Well, I eat all right, and I enjoy my food.”

Becky: I think everyone remembers from those Friday night dinner’s, Nana’s famous chicken soup and the chicken and all the good food that…
FLORA: Well, that was my pleasure; believe me.

Becky: That was fun
FLORA: Well, you know, especially when we made the kiddish, aw, those were the happy days.

Becky: Sounds like, after going though all this time, it sounds like you’ve had a lot of happy days.
FLORA: I did, oh yes, we did. Even when Papa left, I… we were happy cause we had the family around. And, you know, everybody here envies me that I have a big family. Cause Rose only has one daughter. Luckily she lives her in town, she has one small grandson. Meryl’s two children came today while we were having lunch. She has a son and daughter. She used to live in the same apartments where I lived. She was downstairs and I was upstairs. And her children are staying in the apartment and got to clean it up and to try and sell it. I think she is trying to sell it but until it’s sold they living there, so.

Becky: These are the women that sit at your table?
FLORA: Sit at the table, yes. And also Sadie Geller, who being deaf and hard of hearing, we feel badly that we can’t include her in the conversation because we have spirited conversations at our table.

Becky: You have a really good table?
FLORA: Very good. I told them, I says, “Gee how lucky could I be that they put me at this table?” I says, “They could have put me across from, I won’t mention the name.” But, they are very…they intellectual people and we have nice conversations, world affairs. I think I’m the only one who gets the newspaper so if there is anything interesting I have to bring that part of the paper for them.

Becky: Sometimes the newspaper can be depressing but it’s to keep up with what’s going on.
FLORA: When I was moving I came across an old paper from the Oregonian, 1975, might have been the Journal or the Oregonian. It was, “What is a Jew?” And it’s quite…it’s about four or five pages that are now separated. And so I brought it and Rose read it and she was very impressed. And when I go to work Monday, I’m going to have Buddy copy it in single papers and I’ll clip them together so Meryl can read it. It would be hard for her, she only uses the one hand, it would be hard for her to read it they way they are. So I’m going to have them copied and let her read.

Becky: Maybe you could talk a little about what you think being a Jew is and what that’s meant to you cause I think that’s something that you definitely instilled in the rest of your family and it’s very important to you, so.
FLORA: Well, my mother taught me not to ask questions. God does what God does and sometimes we can’t accept what he done but there must be a reason. And like Hank always asks, “How could God have allowed the Holocaust?” at Seder. But, that’s the way we got Israel and maybe it had to be. Maybe some of the people weren’t worthy. You know, over in Germany they weren’t doing very orthodox or kept the Jewish laws or anything, but I couldn’t say that would be held against them, but who knows? My mother always taught me the way she was brought up being Jewish and I always enjoyed being Jewish. I never really came up against any antisemitism during my life. You hear of it but I’ve never come across it. I try to be good to everybody – be friendly with everybody- and they have always been the same to me. I think I mentioned that I worked in an office of nine girls. I was the only Jewish girl. When they had a luncheon or something and they had chicken salad for me they made tuna fish salad. So that is the way I was brought up and I wish my children were really more Jewish than they are but I don’t tell them. They do as they please and they are entitled to their own life. I can’t expect them to keep kosher because I keep kosher. They don’t infringe on me being kosher and I don’t infringe on them not… although when they have me for dinner they always have fish. If they have meat they always have fish for me so that I can eat. And I have always eaten on restaurant dishes so I eat on their dishes. Nowadays with the dishwashers you don’t think of either ham or bacon and whether they have it. And if they do I don’t ask because I don’t want to know. With the dishwashers all the dishes are cleaner than they were in Russia, when they were pottery things. 

I can’t complain. The children have been wonderful to me. In fact I turned down your dad and mother last night. Did you know? I turned them down because I figure why go and have to spend $8 or $10 on a fish dinner that I wouldn’t enjoy as much. Here we had a really good dinner last night. We had Swiss cheese melted on rye bread. It was very good. We all enjoyed it very much because generally it is American cheese. This is the first time they served Swiss cheese.

Becky: So maybe if your children and grandchildren aren’t as religious as you might like, I think a lot of the Jewish values of family and education and everything…
FLORA: Yes, they have good values. They are good hearted and they get into Jewish causes. Mother and Dad above everybody with what they do with the Jewish organizations. Mother goes to meetings every night, you know. She is on so many boards and things, and Dad, too. It makes me happy that they are interested in Jewish life. And Bud would be more so if he were in town, but playing golf takes a good part of Robin’s time and Buddy’s. And it’s good for him to have the exercise. But when [your] Mom and Dad got married Stella bought them each a set of golf clubs and they never used them. They were always down in the basement. It would be good for your dad if he went out. We talked about that this morning. I said the only way to get rid of that is with exercise. He doesn’t have the time or the inclination.

[they continue talking about exercise theories for a few minutes.]
[there is another cassette tape after this. It is largely a conversation between Becky and Flora. It does not contain any new information and has not been transcribed.]