Elizabeth Hirsch Baer

BAER: My ideas came way back, you know. I’m not as modern as a lot of people.

Tanzer: In what way? 
BAER: Well, I don’t know how to say it. I’m just not, that’s all.

Tanzer: Elizabeth, do you remember your grandparents? 
BAER: No, I don’t remember them much. My father came from Europe, so I don’t know anything about his father and mother.

Tanzer: They never came to America? 
BAER: No, no. I knew my mother’s stepmother, but I didn’t know her well. She lived in California, and the few times that we were in California, we visited with her, but I didn’t know her well.

Tanzer: Where did your father’s family come from? 
BAER: Well, from Germany, from a little place called [inaudible].

Tanzer: And your mother’s family originally came from…? 
BAER: Well, my mother’s father and mother lived in Salem, Oregon, but I suppose he came from Europe.

Tanzer: From Germany also? 
BAER: I imagine so.

Tanzer: Do you remember visiting your grandparents’ home in Salem? 
BAER: No, but I know that we did go to Salem, because I heard my mother talk about trips that we took. We were in Portland. My mother and I were in Portland one time and Sam Herman, a cousin of my mother’s, decided that it would be nice to us to go to Salem. And some of the Hirsches…the Ed Hirsches were living there at the time, and of course my mother enjoyed that, but I never remember being there before.

Tanzer: What was your grandfather’s name? 
BAER: His name was Leopold Hirsch.

Tanzer: And on your father’s side? 
BAER: No, I don’t know.

Tanzer: How many children were there in your mother’s family? 
BAER: Three daughters.

Tanzer: What were their names? 
BAER: Laura Adler, and then Rosa, and my mother’s name was Sally. 

Tanzer: Your mother became Mrs. Baer, and your Aunt? 
BAER: Mrs. Adler.

Tanzer: And your other aunt? 
BAER: Well, she was Mrs. Baer. The first.

Tanzer: Oh, tell me about that. 
BAER: Well, that is all I know about it. She died, evidently, a very young woman, possibly at childbirth. I don’t know. People didn’t talk about those things in the early days.

Tanzer: Were there any children from that marriage? 
BAER: No, not that I know of.

Tanzer: And then your mother married Mr. Baer. 
BAER: And I had a brother and myself; that was the whole family. 
 
Tanzer: Was your brother younger or older? 
BAER: He was three years older.

Tanzer: Where did you live? 
BAER: In the house that’s on the other corner of Leo’s house. 
 
Tanzer: Right in Baker? 
BAER: Yes, on Main Street.

Tanzer: Were you born in that house? 
BAER: Yes.

Tanzer: And that house is still in — 
BAER: Well, my brother was born in 1888 and it must have been built, I’d say, in 1886, but I’m not sure. But it was around that time.

Tanzer: And then you lived there. 
BAER: I lived there until my father and brother passed away. In fact, I lived there two years by myself. Almost two years, I should say.

Tanzer: How long was your mother alive? 
BAER: Well she died in ’23 and that’s 54 years ago. 
 
Tanzer: And your father and your brother? 
BAER: Died in 1944.

Tanzer: What kind of things do you remember doing as children in that house with the family? 
BAER: Well, I don’ t know. We were a very close family. We just had a very normal childhood and there were a lot of things that weren’t here in those days. Our house was sort of a meeting place. We had neighbors. And people from uptown would stop in. I would have to come home after school and do my homework because in the evenings there were so many people around. There wasn’t any place to be. And of course, in those days we didn’t have central heating. We had a stove and sat around the stove, don’t you know, and ate apples.

Tanzer: Where did you do your homework? 
BAER: At home.

Tanzer: In what room? 
BAER: Well, our dining room was sort of our living room, you know, so I would come home after school and do a little homework. And in the evening when people came in, as they often did, why, I could enjoy them and not be bothered with homework.

Tanzer: Where did you go to school? 
BAER: Here in Baker.

Tanzer: What were the names of the schools? 
BAER: Well, we went to the Central School and then to high school. 

Tanzer: What was the name of the high school? 
BAER: Just Baker High School.

Tanzer: I noticed that there were a number of schools that were called North Baker. 
BAER: Yes, that’s since I went to school. We have a South Baker School and a Brooklyn School and a school they now call Junior High School. And the little school was the high school in my day, when I went to school.

Tanzer: The middle school today is the old Baker City High School? 
BAER: Well, yes, it was a grade school and a high school in my day.

Tanzer: And was the Central School a different school? 
BAER: It’s a new building now. The other building was torn down.

Tanzer: Let me ask you again about the family. Did you have other family other than your parents and your brother living in Baker? 
BAER: Well, my father’s brother lived at our house until he was married, I guess. And then we had a cousin who came from Germany. He went to school for a little while and he lived with us.

Tanzer: What were their names? 
BAER: My father’s brother was named Isaac and my cousin who came, his name was Bernhard, just like my brother’s name, as that was a family name. He was a grown young man, but he went to school to learn the language. Then he went to work and found a place for himself, you know, because he wanted to have his own life to live.

Tanzer: Did they remain in Baker? 
BAER: Well, he did, and he was married [and] had three children. The children are still living. Well, one – the girl – is not living, but his two boys are living.

Tanzer: Are they still in Baker? 
BAER: No, none of them are in Baker. 

Tanzer: Where are they now? 
BAER: One is in Eugene and one lives… I don’t know. He lives in Washington. Not in Tacoma, but out of Tacoma somewhere.

Tanzer: And your uncle Isaac? 
BAER: He passed away many years ago. 

Tanzer: Did he have a family? 
BAER: No. He married very late in life. 

Tanzer: But he did remain here until…? 
BAER: Yes, until he passed away.

Tanzer: I believe we saw a picture of him in the book that you showed me – a member of one of the fraternal lodges. 
BAER: Yes, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised. That’s what people had to do in those days. There was someone who wanted to write a book about the west and he came up to see my father. My father had a pretty good memory, and he [the writer] was sitting out on the porch and Dad was telling him about all the lodges that he belonged to. And I said to this young man, “Ask him questions, you see, he has a lot of knowledge.” But, I said, “You don’t want that; that’s not western history. He belonged to this lodge and that lodge.” Of course, he was awfully happy about it, and when he was retired that was his life, really, and he had much joy with that contact – various friends, you know, and so forth, and he loved it.

Tanzer: What types of organizations did he belong to? 
BAER: Well, somebody asked him once if he wouldn’t join another lodge and he said he would if there was another day in the week; he had one almost every day.

Tanzer: Every day he was going to meetings? 
BAER: Yes, he belonged to the Elks, he belonged to Knights of Pythias, the Masons (he was a 33rd degree Mason), Oddfellows…. That’s what I was going to say. There weren’t any more nights to go to.

Tanzer: What business was he in? 
BAER: He was a merchant.

Tanzer: What was the nature of his merchandise? 
BAER: Oh, general. The store had everything, even a grocery store.

Tanzer: What was the name of the store? 
BAER: Well, he was with Mr. Sam Ottenheimer. I don’t remember that. I just know it was Baer & Ottenheimer, and it was Baer & Bloch. There was a family in town by the name of Bloch lived in the house where Leo lives in now and I think they built that house. They haven’t lived here for years and years and years. Then later it was the Baer Mercantile Company and then my father was retired.

Tanzer: How many years was this from the time he started? Did he retire? 
BAER: Oh, I don’t know. He was active. He did different things, you know. He was interested in a lot of things.

Tanzer: Who took over the store when he retired? 
BAER: I don’t know. I think maybe… I don’t know whether that was a tavern or not.

Winfield: Was Bernie in business with your father? 
BAER: No, my father was out of business before Bernie. He was in college and then Bernie started in Bache-Sage. My father was interested in Bache-Sage, too.

Tanzer: In what way? 
BAER: Well, he was a director and he had stock. He was a stockholder in Bache-Sage.

Tanzer: Who had started Bache-Sage? 
BAER: Two men by the name of Bache and Sage.

Tanzer: Were they Jewish? 
BAER: No.

Tanzer: Has many people did they have who were directors and who were interested in it? Baer: Well, I don’t know how many. I know more about the modern store than I do… I don’t know too much about that. They have quite a few stockholders now.

Winfield: I think originally it was the Baches and the Sages and the Baers. There weren’t really others. 
BAER: Yes, there were other people. Well, Mr. French was the manager. I don’t know that you knew him. My father was in the Citizens Bank; he was a vice-president of the Citizens Bank at one time, and Mr. French was cashier. My father and Mr. French were very good friends. And then Mr. French was general manager of Bache and Sage. He was the one that got my father interested.

Tanzer: After your father retired from the Baer Mercantile, then he became active in Bache and Sage? 
BAER: Yes, but not in the selling, but just interested in it.

Tanzer: And then is that the business that your brother went into? How active was he? 
BAER: Oh, he was very active. When he was ill, Mr. French, who was the general manager, one time stopped [by] and asked me how my brother was. And I told him that he was not well, but I said he wouldn’t do anything about it because he doesn’t think that the store will get along without him. And Mr. French kind of looked at me and he said, “I think maybe he’s right.” He [her brother] was very popular. People liked him. He was the sales manager and he travelled around the country and he knew everybody. Children just flocked around him. We had neighbors with little children who are now grown up ,and they would come into the yard and they would call, “Come out and play with us!” and he would do it. He just loved them, you know, and one time we went swimming and he had a flock of children around him.

Tanzer: Where did he go to school? 
BAER: He went to the University of Oregon.

Tanzer: And majored in what? 
BAER: I suppose business.

Tanzer: Do you remember when he graduated? 
BAER: Oh, he never quite finished college. He came home for the last year.

Tanzer: After you graduated from high school? 
BAER: I went to the University of Oregon for a couple of years. We both went together.

Tanzer: What years was that? 
BAER: Oh, it would be on awful long time ago. Pretty soon you’ll get my age and I’m not telling you.

Tanzer: I don’t care about your age. I just want to know what year were you in the University of Oregon. 
BAER: I was there, I think, ’09 or ’10.

Tanzer: And then you came back to Baker? And then what did you do? 
BAER: I taught school. 

Tanzer: Where? 
BAER: Here in Baker. I am a retired teacher. 

Tanzer: What age level did you teach? 
BAER: I taught high school. 

Tanzer: In what field? 
BAER: Mathematics, mostly.

Tanzer: How many years did you teach? 
BAER: I don’t know how many years I taught. I taught long enough to get a life certificate. I was talking to one of the teachers the other day and I said, “I don’t think they give those anymore,” and she said, “I don’t think so, either.”

Tanzer: They do give something called seniority or tenure after a certain number of years. 
BAER: Well, I think that’s the same way. And I kept saying, “I am going to teach until I get that life certificate, because I don’t know what will happen and I may want to go back to teaching and I’ll have that certificate.” But I never went back to teaching. After my mother died I took care of my family.

Tanzer: But you did go away to school. 
BAER: Oh yes, I went from Oregon to Wellesley. I wanted to finish at Wellesley.

Tanzer: Tell me about your decision to go to Wellesley. 
BAER: Well, I think I must have read in a book about something about some young girl going to Wellesley and I thought it was very attractive. I had that in my mind for years and I kept saying I was going to Wellesley. I didn’t know whether we could afford to. I didn’t consider that, you know. I just thought, “I am going to Wellesley.” And the family went along with me, I guess, because I never heard any complaints.

Winfield: Was your family pleased? 
BAER: Well, I don’t know. I don’t think they thought too much about it. I guess they thought I might do what I pleased, don’t you know. Of course I was with my mother a lot. And when I went away to school I was with my brother and we had relatives in Eugene who kind of looked after us. I had never really been an my own until I went to Wellesley.

Winfield: Didn’t your family feel, though, that you were going to get a super education? 
BAER: Oh, I don’t know.

Winfield: Didn’t they have some kind of a feeling? 
BAER: I don’t know. The first year I was in Wellesley, making up for things that I should have had before I got there and doing work on my own level, don’t you know. And we lived in the village in the first semester. I was complaining all the time, you know. It was cold and winter and we had to walk to a lake which was frozen over. We had to walk by that to get to our classes. And it was cold and it took so much time and I was taking too heavy a course, because I didn’t have time to get it all in. So my mother wrote and said if I wasn’t happy to come home. Oh course, I wouldn’t have done that for the world.

Tanzer: Why not? 
BAER: I just thought it would be a terrible discouraging thing if I came home, you know. It was a beautiful place and I loved it, but it was a little hard getting used to it.

Tanzer: Did you come home during the summers? 
BAER: Yes, and I went to New York during the vacation time. My mother had some cousins in New York and I kept up with them. This picture here of Henry Hoffheimer [show’s picture]. He’s the son of a cousin of my mother’s. I was with them every time I went, and I was with them for a week or so, going and coming. And I’ve gone back and stayed with them, I guess about three years ago. I thought, if I was going to see them again, I had better go, because he was 92, I think, when he died.

Winfield: Were you in college during World War One or before? 
BAER: Well, I think before.

Tanzer: So you did two years at Wellesley. 
BAER: I was two years at Wellesley.

Tanzer: And you had two years at the University of Oregon. 
BAER: I had so many things to make up. I had more credits than I needed, but I didn’t have the right kind.

Tanzer: Did you have thoughts, perhaps, about staying in the eastern part of the United States? 
BAER: No, I never wanted to do that.

Tanzer: You always knew you were going to come back to Baker. 
BAER: Yes, to teach.

Tanzer: When you came back, was it difficult to find a teaching position? 
BAER: Well, I think it was the first year. I don’t think I did. I can’t remember whether I taught the first year or not. I taught German in the grades. That was something they were trying to introduce and it was not very popular. Youngsters that wanted to take it, it was voluntary on their part, and they had to be out of the classroom and they were missing something in the classroom. And the teachers were not cooperative and the buildings that I went to (and I went to all of the various buildings in town) and I thought it was just in the 8th grade. There was a young man (he’s an old man now, he lives in the hotel with his wife); he told me not very long ago that it was in the 7th grade that he took German from me. I don’t know, I thought it was the 8th grade.But anyway, we had no class rooms. We had to go in cloak rooms and things like that. And it was very difficult, you know. The teachers were very uncooperative and so it didn’t go over. The other day I was at this retired teachers’ meeting and some of the LaGrande retired teachers came down to meet with us, so they decided that everybody should get up and introduce themselves and tell what they taught and where they taught. Well, most of those teachers that go there are teachers that teach new grades, you know? So when I got up to tell them who I was and I gave my name, I said it’s so long ago that I forgot who I taught. I was out to dinner not long ago. One of the ladies came up to me and she said, “You said it was a long time ago and you forgot what you taught, but,” she said, “my husband still remembers the German that he learned from you. He still sings ‘Tannenbaum’ every Christmas.”

Tanzer: And then you taught mathematics. 
BAER: Yes, and I taught it in high school.

Tanzer: Now, you said you left teaching when your mother died. Did you ever go back? 
BAER: No. I worked at Bache-Sage for a few years. I think I did that when I came away from college because I wasn’t teaching at that time. I’ve done various things since.

Tanzer: Did your mother ever work? 
BAER: No.

Tanzer: She never went to the store at all? 
BAER: No.

Winfield: Did you ever speak German at home? 
BAER: No.

Winfield: You didn’t know any German? 
BAER: Well, no, and I didn’t know too much. This was one of Mr. Adler’s ideas. I think he introduced it, and then, of course, they took German out of the schools during the war.

Winfield: The German people who came here, did they speak German among themselves? 
BAER: Well, the Neubergers all spoke German. And these young Neubergers (and we call them young because they are the latest) well, their mother and father were here and they spoke German. I think the father understood English. I used to go and see the mother and I had a terrible time talking with her.

Tanzer: What did you like to do with your mother when you were small? 
BAER: I don’t know. I used to go visiting with her. We used to walk a lot.

Tanzer: Who did you visit? 
BAER: Oh, friends.

Tanzer: Were there specific days for visiting? 
BAER: Oh no, I don’t think so.

Tanzer: What about any of the crafts? Needlework or anything of that sort? 
BAER: My mother was a beautiful sewer and I couldn’t sew at all. One year I decided I was going to make a dress and I made it, too. My mother was so disgusted with me because she wanted me to go to a dressmaker to get some help and I didn’t, because I wanted to do it myself. Well, she did help me a little bit. She did some work on the machine for me, but I made the dress. I wasn’t very successful, but I made it. I never wanted to make it again.

Tanzer: There was no emphasis, really, to teach you the house or the womanly skills? 
BAER: No. I said, when my mother died, I knew how to make cookies and I knew how to make cake. And if she went out in the afternoon to a card club or a party, I could get supper, because most of it was in the refrigerator and I could start it and have the table set and have things started if she happened to be late. I never had gotten a meal until my mother died.

Tanzer: Were you closer to one parent than to the other? 
BAER: Well, I think I was closer to my mother. I was with her more. 
 
Tanzer: Do you remember some of the things that you did with your father? 
BAER: Well, we did a lot of things together, you know. We used to walk on Sundays.

Tanzer: The whole family? 
BAER: Yes. I don’t know whether my brother did. My brother was – we said that my brother went with all the tough boys in town, but he turned out pretty good.

Tanzer: Who were the tough boys? 
BAER: Oh, they were all right. But some of them, you know, were wilder than others. Those were his friends.

Tanzer: Did your father object to that? 
BAER: I don’t think so.

Tanzer: Do you remember being scolded or punished when you were a child? 
BAER: Not particularly, no.

Tanzer: How about your brother? 
BAER: No, not particularly, either. Oh, they tried to teach us what was right.

Tanzer: Do you remember any pranks that you or your brother played on your parents? 
BAER: No.

Tanzer: Nothing on Halloween or the 4th of July? 
BAER: I don’t remember anything that we did. We were just normal kids that’s all.

Winfield: Did you have family observances, like with the Adlers, when the two families would get together? 
BAER: Oh, yes.

Winfield: Holidays? 
BAER: We had the Christmas and the Adlers had the Thanksgiving and they were really some parties. We had dinner about one o’clock. In those days you had help, you know? And the dishes were all washed and put back on the table and then, toward evening, the cold turkey, cranberry sauce and everything else was spread out and people ate again. They don’t do that anymore.

Tanzer: How many people were at these dinners? Baker: Oh, just the families. Let’s see – there were five of the Adlers and four of us, and sometimes we would have somebody, maybe, that didn’t have a family. Maybe ten.

Tanzer: Who would come over in the evening? 
BAER: The same. We would be together all day.

Winfield: What did you do all day? 
BAER: Talk.

Winfield: Did you play cards? 
BAER: No. Sometimes we [kids] would go out for walks and things like that. We would play around the yard.

Winfield: Did your parents play cards? 
BAER: Oh, they played cards.

Tanzer: As a child, did you envision a life like your parents’? 
BAER: I don’t think I...

Winfield: Your father – I think it would be very interesting – his Masonry, which was a very big part of his life. 
BAER: He didn’t go into Masonry when he was very young. It was just this lodge and the Masons were marvelous to him and he was treasurer or something. But Mr. Robb, you know do you remember Mr. Robb? Well, Mr. Robb did all his work for him in later life and they just let him be treasurer in name only.

Tanzer: Did your parents discuss politics? 
BAER: Oh, I imagine they did, because that’s part of life. Don’t you think so?

Tanzer: Do you remember any of the political discussions? 
BAER: Oh no, I don’t remember things like that. My memory isn’t too good anyway.

Tanzer: What political persuasion were they? 
BAER: Well, I told you, they were Republicans. Born and bred Republicans. 

Tanzer: Was the whole family Republicans? 
BAER: Yes, but the Adlers aren’t Republicans anymore. 

Winfield: [Question inaudible] 
BAER: No.

Tanzer: Were there any discussions about the fact that part of the family were not Republicans? 
BAER: No.

Tanzer: Did your parents discuss religion? 
BAER: No, not particularly.

Tanzer: Were they concerned that there wasn’t enough of the Jewish religion surrounding the children? 
BAER: Well, you see, my father came from Germany when he was young and I don’t imagine that he had too much religious bringing-up. And my mother lived in Salem where there wasn’t religion, you know? There was a Mrs. Dilsheimer who was a Loewengart from Portland. She tried to have little Sunday School class for us, which was really very good, and that’s about it, but it didn’t last. I guess maybe we didn’t take it enough interest in it or something. I think it was too bad.

Winfield: How did your family… when you were living away from a Jewish community, how did your family put over the idea that you are Jewish? 
BAER: I don’t know. Because I can remember when we were quite young. I think we were riding bicycles or something and some youngsters called us some names, and I can remember that I didn’t know what it meant.

Tanzer: So what did you do about it? 
BAER: Why, I think I told the family and they discussed it with me. 

Tanzer: Do you remember what they said? 
BAER: No. I just remembered that I was surprised. I didn’t know what they were talking about.

Tanzer: Where were the Sunday school classes held? 
BAER: I imagine in a hall or some of the homes. 

Tanzer: Do you remember attending? 
BAER: Oh, sure.

Tanzer: What was the approach? 
BAER: Well, I think she just tried to tell us what it meant to be Jewish, and tell us a little bit about the history and what Judaism was and what it stood for. She was really very good.

Tanzer: How many people were in the class? 
BAER: Oh, I don’t know. They were maybe about a half a dozen. 

Tanzer: Do you remember who they were? 
BAER: No, but whoever was here at the time went. That’s a long time ago.

Tanzer: That’s very interesting. It’s the first time we’ve heard about the Sunday school class and that attempt. 
BAER: It was very short lived.

Tanzer: Was there ever talk about building a synagogue? 
BAER: Oh no, never.

Tanzer: Or bringing in a special teacher for the young people? 
BAER: No, I don’t think so. We did celebrate the High Holidays and that was about it.

Tanzer: How did you celebrate the High Holidays? 
BAER: Well, a number of us here rented a place for us to meet and somebody would read the prayers. And as Carolyn said, we got some of the sermons from Portland. They would send them and somebody would read them. One time we had some men who sang and we had some singing during the services.

Tanzer: Did your family feel a close religious tie with any other community? 
BAER: We all fasted on Yom Kippur.

Tanzer: Were the Jewish shops closed on Yom Kippur? 
BAER: Yes, they still are, mostly, here. Heilners close and the Neubergers close. I don’t think Leo closes his office anymore. And I know that Julian Sommers doesn’t close his store, but the rest of us do.

Tanzer: Do the furniture stores close? 
BAER: Well, the Neubergers, there are two sets of them and each have a furniture store and they close. And the Neuberger-Heilner store always closes.

Tanzer: Why I ask about religious ties – I wondered whether you felt a closer religious tie with Portland or Boise. 
BAER: Well, I think we did at the time we went to Portland, because we went to Portland occasionally. If we happened to be there for a holiday, we would go to a temple. We often went Friday nights and Saturday morning to temple.

Winfield: I think they saw that they had a number of relatives. I think our families were very close. We didn’t see each other very often, but there was always a very close-knit… 
BAER: And you know, a good many of the relatives lived in Salem at the time, and my mother felt it and they were brought up together. There were lots of cousins. I remember when I went to Eugene once, and I was talking to the mother of a friend of mine. I would say, “Oh, that’s a cousin of my mother’s.” And she said to me once, “Is all of Portland related to your mother?” Well, now we have Elise and Carolyn and Marian, but I never see Marian. I saw her in the store, not the last time, but the time before and I said, “Marian, let’s make a date. I never see you. Let’s have a lunch or a dinner together. I’ll call you up.” I’ve never heard from her.

Tanzer: Who were the relatives in Salem? 
BAER: Well, they were Hirsches, Ed Hirsch family. I don’t think there are any of those people left.

Winfield: The relatives in Oregon City I think were Selling relatives. Those weren’t your relatives? 
BAER: No.

Winfield: The ones that Daddy used to go up and somebody baked the pies? 
BAER: No, we didn’t haven’t any relatives.

Tanzer: But the Ed Hirsches had how many children ? 
BAER: Oh, there was Leona and Gertie and Maude and another one. 

Winfield: What about the Hermans? How were they related? 
BAER: Well, I don’t know.

Winfield: Addle and the brother – the tall, skinny brother. They were Hirsches 
BAER: They were cousins of my mother’s.

Tanzer: Did they live in Salem too? 

Winfield: No, they lived at the bottom of Broadway Drive. He baked his own bread. He looked like Abe Lincoln.

Tanzer: There were four girls, then, at the Ed Hirsches in Salem? 
BAER: I think so, and a couple of boys.

Tanzer: Do you remember the names of the boys? 
BAER: Well, one of them was Guy. Do you remember Guy? He was the black sheep of the family. 

Winfield: Well, Guy was some relation of the Hermans. 
BAER: Yes, they were all related.

Winfield: Well, then, Mrs. Herman must have been a Hirsch. 
BAER: She possibly was some Hirsch.

Tanzer: Then you spent a good deal of time when you went to Portland in Salem? 
BAER: Oh, no. I was never in Salem but once in my life. I mean to visit and we were just there for the day.

Tanzer: How often did you come into Portland? 
BAER: Oh, a couple times a year.

Tanzer: And who were the Hirsch relatives there? 
BAER: Well, The Sol Hirsches were my mother’s… Mr. Sol Hirsch was my mother’s uncle. 

Tanzer: And did you visit them? 
BAER: As Carolyn says, we put our best clothes on and went up to see them. 

Tanzer: Tell me about the visiting with the Hirsches. 
BAER: Oh, it was lovely. The house was beautiful and they were very cordial and they were always glad to see us and oh, I think I made a big – what’s the word I want now? Anyway, Aunt Josephine thought it was wonderful because I went to Wellesley. She wanted me to meet Mrs. Cook and Mrs. somebody else, because they went to Wellesley in her day, but I didn’t meet them. But they were lovely to us.

Tanzer: Now this Sol Hirsch, had he been the ambassador to Turkey and they were back from Turkey? 
BAER: Yes. Oh, yes.

Tanzer: And lived in this house. Did they entertain a great deal? 
BAER: Oh, I imagine so, but we weren’t there. I can remember once when we were there when I was a little girl. He took me up to dinner and he came to see my mother and took me back home to dinner with them; and I thought that was a marvelous thing, you know.

Tanzer: Tell me about your dinner. 
BAER: I don’t remember anything about it, but I remember that Clementine was terribly… she was a young lady and I was a little girl. She was dressing dolls for some organization as volunteer work. She was terribly interesting. She took me and showed me all these dolls and I was terribly impressed because they were lovely. She had done a beautiful job.

Tanzer: How many children did they have? 
BAER: They had three daughters and a son. 

Tanzer: And who were they? 
BAER: One of them was Ellen, one was Clementine, and May, and the son’s name was Sanford.

Tanzer: Did they marry? 
BAER: No, the son did. Sanford. That’s all I know about them. I would see them once a year, something like that, but they were always very gracious and lovely and it was a lovely thing to go to their home.

Tanzer: And they treated you well? 
BAER: Oh yes, they were very lovely and they liked my mother. She was kind of a favorite with the cousins.

Tanzer: But you don’t remember any of the details of those lovely dinners? 
BAER: No, I was a child. I just cared enough to eat and that was all I cared about. 

Tanzer: Well, you remember Carolyn? 
BAER: Well, Carolyn was a young girl.

Winfield: I was a child and I can remember. It made quite an impression. 
BAER: Oh, sure. Well, then you were more intimate. You lived there, you know.

Tanzer: What kind of activities did you do when you were a child? Did you play games and read books? 
BAER: Oh yes, I was always reading. I rode horseback and I skated.

Tanzer: What kind of skating did you do? 
BAER: Ice skating and roller skating.

Tanzer: Where did you ice skate? Outdoors? 
BAER: On the river. And we had ponds, too.

Tanzer: [Inaudible] river? 
BAER: Yes. 

Winfield: [Question inaudible] 
BAER: Well, we had a natatorium here, you know, and we went swimming. I didn’t know how to swim until after I went to college. The first year I was in Wellesley (we had Monday off in those times, they don’t have that any more) we decided we would learn to swim and we took almost a whole day to go where this… and we found out about it, but we did. And we went and it was really a task. And we found that we really needed that Monday to get ready for the rest of the week and to do library work and do term papers and things of that sort. So we never finished our course in swimming. When I came back home I decided that I had to learn to swim, and I did. And we used to swim a lot.

Tanzer: What kind of games did you play when you were young? 
BAER: We had a gang in the streets, you know. We had run-sheep-run and hide-and-seek and those sort of things, you know.

Tanzer: Jump rope and pick-up-sticks? 
BAER: Oh, yes. We had the sidewalk all marked up. I see some children still doing those kind of things.

Tanzer: I think that hop scotch is still a popular game. What type of books interested you? 
BAER: I don’t know. When you are small… we were home alone at night, we would often be read to and I didn’t like that at all. My brother was crazy about being read to, but I always read.

Tanzer: Who would read to you? 
BAER: The maid that stayed with us. In those days we had live-in help. 

Tanzer: Did your parents over read to you? 
BAER: Oh, surely.

Tanzer: When you read on your own, what type of books did you choose? 
BAER: Well, I must have chosen some young girl’s stories about girls going off to college.

Tanzer: To Wellesley. I wonder if it was adventure stories and travel stories. Do you remember any of the books particularly? 
BAER: Not particularly.

Tanzer: I can remember Little Women. 
BAER: Oh yes, everybody read those things.

Tanzer: Then I had a particular [inaudible], I often remember, with China. And I read the Soong Sisters. 
BAER: Oh, surely. We had one of them [the Soong Sisters]. We had Madame Chang Kai Chek went to Wellesley when I was there.

Tanzer: That’s right, and did you know her? 
BAER: Well, I think we had one class together. I remember her very distinctly. She was very bright.

Tanzer: I understand all of them – Well, from what I read in that book and then consequently read everything else that was written about them… 
BAER: But that was when I was grown up. That wasn’t when I was a little child. That was when I was in college.

Tanzer: I was intrigued with China because it seemed so exotic and for away and unattainable, and so I thought that those were the stories that you would have read. 
BAER: I just read children’s books.

Tanzer: Were children’s books very available here? 
BAER: I imagine so. I can always remember being read to and reading. 

Tanzer: Was there a library here? 
BAER: We had a library here. It was kind of a volunteer thing. And then we had a kind of Carnegie library that’s right across the street here. It is used for what they call…Crossroads. and it really has developed into quite an organization. They have plays over there; they have things to sell, you know, like textiles. They have exhibits, traveling exhibits, and then if they know anybody around this part of the country, they have exhibits. They have open house at least once a month; I never go to them. I belong. I am a charter member of Crossroads. I said if it was down at other end of town, I might go. Oh, once in a while somebody calls up and says let’s go, and I’ll go with them, but otherwise.

Tanzer: It’s a very nice library. 
BAER: Oh yes, it’s a lovely library. 

Tanzer: We were there this afternoon. 
BAER: Did you notice a round painting there? 

Tanzer: Yes, close to the exit doors. 
BAER: Yes, that’s Mrs. Heilner’s son. Richard Heilner did that. [He was] a lawyer here; he was a judge – Judge Wolf. You might have known him, Carolyn. He bought that and gave it to the library.

Tanzer: That was a very nice one. Did you see it today, Carolyn? Now, is this one of Sanford Heilner’s sons? 
BAER: The middle son Richard.

Tanzer: He’s an artist where? 
BAER: Well, he lives in Boise now. 

Tanzer: Was there a show of his here? 
BAER: No, but he has brought some of his paintings here on occasions for different organizations and told them about his work.

Tanzer: Elizabeth, I want to ask you once more if you can remember with whom you spent most of your time as a child growing up? 
BAER: Oh, I had friends, like everybody does. And this Mrs. Levy – her name was Gertrude Fuchs. We were brought up together, almost. She was a little older than I was, but we went through school together. She was lovely.

Tanzer: Who were some of your other friends? 
BAER: Oh, I don’t know. I can’t remember young people. 

Tanzer: What about boyfriends? 
BAER: Oh, I was never very… my brother had lots of friends. I was never attractive to boys and I never paid much attention to them. I used to play with them and do things of that sort, and my brother was always wonderful to me. I didn’t need anybody else.

Tanzer: When you went away to school in Wellesley, did you make friends there with girls from other parts of the country? 
BAER: Oh, yes. I still hear from them every now and then. There is one girl who lives in Montana now. She had lived in Denver and we have never seen each other since – well, we were together when I went back to a reunion. But we are so close, really, when you think of going back there, and we never see each other.

Tanzer: When was the reunion? 
BAER: Oh, it was a number of years ago, and I was in Europe that summer and then I stayed in New York a few days and then went up to Wellesley for the reunion and then came home.

Tanzer: What reunion was it? 
BAER: 50th.

Tanzer: Were there a good number of people there? 
BAER: Oh, yes. It was just wonderful to see them. When I was in India I was coming out of a temple and a lady was going in and I looked at her. She was a great big tall gal, and I said, “I know you.” Just like that. And she said, “Wellesley College.” And she said “Clara Hart” and I said, “Elizabeth Baer of Wellesley.” We belonged to the same class and we were not intimate, but we knew each other. So when I went to the reunion, I was looking for these friends of mine, because I had been writing to them and we were going to have rooms together. We were going to have separate rooms, but near each other. I had come in and I was quite agitated because it was quite a trip and, had I been home, I would have gotten all the material and would have known what I should have done. But I hadn’t been home and I didn’t know my way, because things had changed since my day, you know.And I did have a couple of friends in Boston who met me and they were supposed to find out how I could get to Wellesley, and their information was not correct. And so I got on the bus and fortunately, a very nice young lady was on this bus and she wanted to know where I was going. And we were sitting in the same seat and I said I am going to Wellesley College and she said, “This bus does not go to Wellesley at all.” So she told me where to get off and to take a taxi and go to Wellesley. So I got there, but it was a hot day and changing [taxis] in Boston and changing in Wellesley, or some place, and then getting the bus – I was kind of frustrated, don’t you know. I mean, it was something I hadn’t planned on and it was sort of unpleasant. So then, when I registered in at the dormitory where I was supposed to stay, I asked them what time dinner was and they told me. And I just freshened up a bit and put on a clean dress and went down and I saw this Clara Hart, and I said something to her and she said, “Oh, this is Elizabeth Baer and we met in India.” So that was all I needed. She was a big help to me. She has been to Europe many times, and my cousin in New York has been in Europe many times, and in her various trips they had run into each other, unbeknownst to me. So one time they met an a bus, so they got to speaking and my cousin asked her something about where had she been, so she said the had been to Wellesley to a class reunion. So my cousin said that we have a relative that went up to Wellesley and she [Clara] said, “Who is it?” And she [the cousin] said, “Elizabeth Baer.” “Oh,” she [Clara] said, “I met her in India.”

Tanzer: Tell me about the class reunion. 
BAER: Oh, it was lovely. We stayed at one of the nice dormitories and we were featured. Of course, always the 50th year one is featured, you know. They had lovely meals for us and there was always something doing. It was just a weekend, but something doing every minute, don’t you know. And to see some of these people that you knew when you were in college, and everybody was glad to see everybody else, and if you didn’t know them, that was all right, you still were glad to see them.

Tanzer: There were people you hadn’t seen in 50 years. 
BAER: Well, I had been back once before. I was with one of my friends, so I had seen them, but Mother and I went back one year and my mother had never been to Wellesley. My brother had come when I was graduated, and so we [she and her mother] had taken a little trip and went to New York to see the relatives and en route we went to Wellesley. It was the year that Amy Rothschild graduated.

Tanzer: The year that you went back? 
Baer: Yes. I don’t know why I brought that in for. 

Tanzer: I had asked you if you had seen some of the people. 
BAER: Yes, so I saw some of the people then too. 

Tanzer: Did you know Amy Rothschild? 
BAER: We knew her brother because he was at Oregon when we were. Joe. And Joe and my brother were very good friends and Joe came up here and spent some time. My brother was interested in a girl and he wasn’t doing anything for Joe, and so my mother – my mother was crazy about him. He was lovely to be in the home, you know. He played the piano. So my mother and I had to entertain Joe. Bernie didn’t pay any attention to him. But anyway, I think he had a good time here.

Tanzer: Did you visit the Rothschilds when you came to Portland? 
BAER: No, but I knew his wife and spent some time with them, but I never visited with them in Portland. I always stayed in a hotel.

Tanzer: He’s still in Portland. 
BAER: I don’t know. I haven’t seen him for a long time. 

Tanzer: I understand that he really is not quite well. 
BAER: He was just charming. We liked him so much.

Tanzer: I want to go back and ask you if you know why your parents had settled in LeGrande? 
BAER: Well, my father had a sister in LaGrande. 

Tanzer: I meant in Baker, but I said LaGrande. 
BAER: He had a sister in LaGrande and he want to LaGrande first, and I don’t know what brought him to Baker, except that it was kind of a booming mining town. There was mining all around and I guess he got a job here.

Tanzer: How did his sister come to LaGrande? 
BAER: I don’t know. I never did know that, but she evidently married. I think she died when she was a very young woman.

Tanzer: I always wonder what brought a person here. 
BAER: I don’t know. 

Winfield: [Inaudible] 
BAER: Well, I suppose that’s right. 

Tanzer: What was her name? 
BAER: Her first name was [inaudible].

Tanzer: And her last name was? 
BAER: I don’t know what her married name was. I never heard. 

Tanzer: You don’t remember any? 
BAER: No, she died a long time before I was born. 

Tanzer: There was no contact then with her husband? 
BAER: No.

Tanzer: You don’t know if she had any children? 
BAER: No, I am sure she didn’t.

Tanzer: And your parents never discussed why they had made that move from LaGrande? 
BAER: No, my parents always lived in Baker. 

Tanzer: What was life like here with the mines? 
BAER: Oh, it was very gay, you know.

Tanzer: When you say “very gay,” what do you mean? 
BAER: Oh, there were lots of people around and so forth. Of course I was just a young girl.

Tanzer: Do you remember seeing the miners in the streets? 
BAER: Oh yes, in Sumter, a little town up here – nearly almost forgotten. The town was very lively. There were mines all around there and this friend of mine, Gertrude Levy (Gertrude Fuchs at that time) had an aunt living up there, an aunt and uncle.

Tanzer: We were talking about the town of Sumter, how you had gone up to visit. 
BAER: Oh, yes. There were such nice people there, you know, and people who had invested money up there, and they had a big hotel, and then a number of years ago they had a big fire there in Sumter, just nothing much. They still have a one room school up there. We have, it’s called… I can’t think of it… Mason Dam. And that has brought a lot of people to Sumter, and there are a lot of people who have summer homes up there – little cottages and things like that – and they tell me there’s a good restaurant up there, but I haven’t been up there.

Tanzer: How close is Sumter? 
BAER: Well, I imagine about 25 miles. I don’t know, maybe it’s a little longer. It’s a good road up there, and there is camping and picnic grounds around this Mason Dam, and there is a lake there and people fish. They have boats up there, and people go up in trailers and they stay up there. We have had friends who have gone up there for a week and we had gone up there and spent an afternoon with them and so forth.

Tanzer: Now, who were the Jewish families who lived in Sumter? 
BAER: I don’t know if there were any Jewish families living. This Mrs. McCune who we visited with – a Jewish lady, but her husband was not Jewish. We rode up to the mines and Mr. McCune would take the bricks of gold and chip them. There were highway robbers in those days, and so we would go up with a picnic lunch and make believe we were just picnicking, you know, and then come back with a great big hunk of gold in the car. And when they would see a man and a woman and a couple of youngsters, you weren’t robbed or anything.

Tanzer: Oh, that’s interesting. Did they tell you that there were robbers? 
BAER: Oh, yes.

Tanzer: You knew that. What happened to the town of Sumter when the mines closed? 
BAER: Well, the town almost died. There is a little activity now, nothing very much, but there are a few mines that do a little mining and there are people from the East who are connected with different organizations looking for minerals.

Tanzer: Larger companies? 
BAER: Yes, and they have had people around in this part of the country because they think there’s gold .

Tanzer: “In them thar hills.” 
BAER: Yes.

Tanzer: I understand that Johns Manville came up here. 
BAER: Yes, they’ve been up, here too.

Tanzer: Sumter may become a boom town again. 
BAER: Yes, it could be.

Tanzer: I remember reading somewhere that after the mines were abandoned, then the Chinese went in and worked the mines for a time, and that the people in the area – the Caucasians – were angry with the Chinese. 
BAER: But the Chinese in the early days were in this part of the country, too, and they did a lot of mining with water.

Winfield: Panned? 
BAER: No, plants mining and things of that sort. That’s when my father was up in the country with some store, supplying the miners with supplies.

Winfield: Where was that? 
BAER: He was somewhere out in Waynville, just right out of Baker. He had a little store around there somewhere.

Tanzer: How long did he have that store? 
BAER: Not too long, just a while.

Tanzer: Did he commute back and forth? 
BAER: Well, I imagine he stayed out there as long as the store was out.

Tanzer: Were there other Jewish merchants who did that? 
BAER: Not that I know of. I know that he did it.

Tanzer: I understand that there was a trend in following the miners. That’s why I wondered if there were more Jewish people in Sumter. 
BAER: I don’t know of anybody. They could have been.

Tanzer: You mentioned that Miss Fuchs had married Mr. McCune. 
BAER: Yes.

Tanzer: Was there a high incidence of intermarriage? 
BAER: Not particularly, I don’t think.

Tanzer: A number of people did not get married – a number of the Jewish men and women. 
BAER: There was Gerson and Bert Neuberger, and Mrs. Heilner tried very hard – Mrs. Heilner, Sr. She had all these Jewish girls; she had these young men take us if there was a good play. And then she would have us over to her house afterwards for something to eat. She tried hard. She set up things but it didn’t work.

Tanzer: We have a number of comparable stories in Portland as to Jewish dowager ladies who attempted to fix up the young. To what do you attribute the fact that a good many of young people did not marry or else married very late? 
BAER: I wouldn’t have any idea.

Tanzer: I wonder if it was because there weren’t enough young people, young Jewish people their age. 
BAER: I don’t know.

Tanzer: Did your parents ever talk to you about marrying within the religion? 
BAER: No.

Tanzer: Was there any discussions in any of the families? 
BAER: I don’t know.

Tanzer: In Portland, in the early days, the young men used to go to San Francisco, because in reading the early papers you would see that so and so has gone to San Francisco. 
BAER: There we a number of marriages that way. I don’t know Portland that well, but I heard about them.

Tanzer: This wasn’t true in this area? 
BAER: No, I don’t think so. 

Tanzer: Did many of the young people go away to school as you had, Elizabeth? 
BAER: Well, people were just starting to go away to college from here. Oh, there had been people who went to college, but not in great numbers. When my brother and I [went], there were a number from our class who went to college. And it seemed to me, of course the campus in Eugene, there were only 500 people there and you spoke to everybody on the campus; it was a small college. Of course now it’s grown so. I was back for a reunion with a couple of my friends and, of course, in our class there was so many that went that at the reunion we associated mostly with ex-Bakerites because we hadn’t seen them and we were so glad to see them and they were all back for the reunion. 

Tanzer: How wonderful. 
BAER: And we had a marvelous time. 

Tanzer: When was this? 
BAER: I don’t know how many years ago, but it would have been the 50th. 

Winfield: Did many women go to college or more men? 
BAER: Well, I think more men did. I am sure of that.

Winfield: But it was not a usual a thing for women to go to college. 
BAER: No, not when we did. I think from here, that our class sent out more people to college and it was the beginning of a trend, you know. But now not all of them go to college, but a great majority of them do. They just don’t think about it, they just go to school and go to college.

Tanzer: Elizabeth, tell me about the neighborhood in which you lived in Baker. What kind of people lived in your neighborhood? 
BAER: Just ordinary people. We played with all the children around the neighborhood. As I said, we played these games, run sheep run at night, until it was dark and everybody knew where we were, because we made so much noise. All the children were gathered out there, just like one big family. The young people played and the older people played, and we all got out there and played together.

Tanzer: Were there a number of Jewish families in the neighborhood? 
BAER: No.

Tanzer: Just your family. 
BAER: And they weren’t young. They didn’t live here, they lived in Astoria. 

Tanzer: Was it all a residential neighborhood? 
BAER: Yes, it was all residential.

Tanzer: How close were you to the business district? 
BAER: Almost as close, you know, we were just a few blocks from town. 

Tanzer: So you could walk it and your father walked it. 
BAER: Oh, yes.

Tanzer: Did he come home for lunch? 
BAER: Oh, surely.

Tanzer: And did you come home from school for lunch? 
BAER: Yes.

Tanzer: What were the family meal like at lunch time? 
BAER: We just had ordinary food, like soup and stuff like that, you know. I don’t remember what. I never was too interested in food. I just ate it, you know.

Tanzer: We have been talking about the good times. Do you remember some of the hard times in Baker? 
BAER: Well, I imagine during the Depression there were very hard times. 

Tanzer: Did you experience any of this? 
BAER: Well, we never suffered. We always had plenty of food and plenty of clothes and heat in our house, you know what I mean. But things were, during the war, things were very tight. Food was rationed, even shoes. We had a terrible time with shoes. That was my – I always was given a meat coupon for a pair of shoes.

Tanzer: Because you didn’t like the food as well as you liked the shoes. 
BAER: Well, I seemed to. When my brother passed away there was one young man in the store who could wear his clothes, you know, and so I gave them [the clothes] and he could wear the shoes. I said, “I must have one of your coupons.” So I got a pair of shoes.

Tanzer: How did people get along with one another generally? 
BAER: I think people were very friendly. You know, in a small town you had to make your own good times and you saw people more than you do in cities. Distance was not so great and there were not so many attractions, so people got together a lot.

Tanzer: And so they cooperated. The exchange of ration cards. 
BAER: Oh, yes.

Tanzer: Was there ever a theater here? 
BAER: Oh, yes. We got good things because it was kind of a stopping place [from] Boise and Portland, you know. We had marvelous theater here at one time. 

Tanzer: How many theaters were there? 
BAER: Just one. Oh, we had movies but this was a real theater. 

Tanzer: Legitimate theater? 
BAER: Yes. The Heilners, they owned that – the Heilners and the Neubergers. It was named The Clarrick. I don’t know, maybe I shouldn’t go into that because I don’t always get things of other people just right.

Tanzer: We all would be interested in it, because we can check then with the Heilners. It is very interesting, and I would like to know about the theatre and about the cultural life. 
BAER: Well, we had some very first rate shows. Of course they were patronized by everybody because they were few and far between.

Tanzer: Do you remember any of the shows? 
BAER: Not particularly, no, but I remember going to the shows. 

Tanzer: Were there any famous actors or actresses? 
BAER: Well, I don’t know. I told somebody that [inaudible] was here and I’m not too sure whether I am right about that. I don’t know, she sticks in my mind. Why would I say that if she hadn’t been here? I am not too certain that she was. We had top notch shows.

Tanzer: What happened to the theater? 
BAER: It burned.

Tanzer: How long ago? 
BAER: Oh, a long time ago.

Tanzer: And there never was one put up in its place? 
BAER: I don’t think so.

Tanzer: So do you get theater here now? 
BAER: No, we have concerts. We have community concerts hare and they are well attended. They are at the high school auditorium, and we have a Knife and Fork Club.

Tanzer: What does that do? 
BAER: Well, it’s a dinner meeting, and we have speakers on this Knife and Fork circuit, and sometimes they are very good and sometimes just fair. Just like everything else.

Tanzer: Who are some of the speakers that you can remember? 
BAER: Oh, heavens, I can’t remember what their names were.